Starting parts list, wanna see? :)

I'm doing this list for 2 reason;

1) So you guys can see what's cookin in my noggin.
2) So I have links I can just click on instead of copy+paste.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/T3-T4-T04...sspagenameZWDVW

http://www.zzperformance.com/grand_prix/products1.php?id=776&catid=110

Using a 304 Stainless T3 flange. When Zooomer gets back to me, I'm going to ask if they can butt-up about 8" of 2.5" pipe and weld it for me.


Got 2 questions for you guys though; how long is a GP, and where can I get 2 times that length of steel braided oil lines?

I will still need an oil pump but I'll use the engine oil.

How hot do you guys thing that turbo would get? I would MUCH rather have an electric oil pump and seperate oil reservoir for the turbo system. That way, I can be turbo'd, supercharge'd, or twin-charged at whim, just a matter of whether the block-off plate is installed or charge pipe is connected.

wow... didnt you just put the supercharger on and now you want to turbo it lol NICE !!

A turbo is that cheap?
Is this for the noise or you just leaving out alot of details to us?

Just remember, you need a smaller turbo for remote mount that if you mounted in the engine compartment. Exhaust gases have cooled and lost some of their mass, so there isn't as much volume to drive the turbo... something to consider, although your turbo choice might be based on this (Turbo numbers/sizes don't mean a whole lot to me, never took the time to sit down and learn compressor maps).

haha your gonna love it!!!!

Any exhaust shop can weld up a flange and pipe for your application.

well if you were looking to buy that one it's gone now

There's plenty more of those turbo's where that one came from. There at at least 10 on ebay at any given time.

And yes RooK, I took the turbo size into consideration.

That turbo is a decent upgrade from many stock turbo cars, mostly 2.0 and 2.2L. That turbo is just the right size for what I'm doing with it. I just wish I could find something that cheap with a .82 A/R on the turbine for some more lag time because ZZP did a rear-mount like this and they said the turbo hurt more than it helped due to it restricting the exhaust.

Not looking for performance, just bragging rights. But I don't know if I'll be the first turbo GP on here anymore, seeing as 2fast4u's buddy bought a turbo gp.

Yeah, that turbo isn't all that pricey because it's rather small and common. Look up something like a T66, those are around $600 and some of those high-end turbonetics turbos run $1000+

Well good luck with this project,You'll have a lotta ney sayers but I say why not as far as the welding if ZZP is'nt interested and you can't find someone local to weld up what you need send the parts to me I'll weld them up for free (just shipping) also shop around for a good used turbo I've heard most of those E-Bay Turbo's are junk (built by chinese monks) anyway best of luck.Chico(pops)

Chico has spoken.

I ordered the turbo, 02 harness, and flange last night.

Now I need to find a bunch of stainless oil line and and oil pump, or just a little oil line and an oil pump. *sigh*

All that's left after that is charge tubing, wastegate, and a BOV.

Now for that BOV, I took very special consideration for what I was going to use.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_mhcNXui5c&feature=related
Greddy Type S. They don't make them anymore so it's kinda tough to find one.

Can you draw up a diagram of this setup or explain where this is going and how it is working?
THanks

I won't know exact placement until I can get under the car and get some specs but basically, all I;m doing is replacing my muffler with a turbo, and running the boost all the way back up front.

Any reason so far back, or that is the best clearance?

Just cause it's both easier and there is a LOT of room back there.

Think about just how much space there is where your passenger side muffler is. IT goes all the way up to the bottom of the trunk. You've got like 8 square feet back there. Plus, (most) turbos aren't THAT big, mine is about 10-12" long, 8"x8" the other way.

Also, because I have Pacesetters, the aboslute closest to the engine I could mount the turbo would be just after the collector, right where the cat is. Deffinately not enough room for a turbo there.

Putting it that far back serves a few purposes.
1) Easy to install/replace/modify the actual turbo
2) Less exhaust heat and velocity means the turbo will be a bit cooler and shouldn't require a wastegate. Although, it won't produce nearly as much power as it would up front
3) Because the boost is going to have to travel back up to the front of the car, it's going to cool a LOT. I'm guessing at least 15% intercooled efficiency just because those pipes are exposed to constantly moving air with no ambient heat.

And the best part is that once I get the turbo set-up and everything, I can CHOOSE whether I want to be supercharged, turboed, or twin-charged.

Wanna just run the turbo? Unbolt the snout, bolt in the block-off plate. Nothing to it.

Feel like not running turbo boost today? Undo the charge pipe from the throttle body and replace my original intake set-up.

Granted, doing that is going to alter the fueling a LOT so I'll have to reset the trims every time I decide to change it.

*update*

I might have to take you up on that offer Chico. ZZP wanted $55(!) to do that weld.

Heck. I'm going to go buy a small length of 2.5" and drop it off at the High School so my old metals teacher can weld it up for me...

Looks like the 02 extension and flange will be here tomorrow, and the turbo is looking to come around Tuesday.

Still need to get a hold of the BOV, oil pump and line, and charge tubing.

The oil line and charge piping are going to kill me...

I think I'm going to do some temperature readings on the exhaust. I think I'll get a small oil reservoir, pump, and MUCH less oil line and just have a seperate oil system JUST for the turbo. If it'd be too hot, I'll just pull the spare, insulate that area, and put that stuff in there...

Wish me luck guys!

So you are going to have to run some type of piping from TB all the way back to that turbo right? And the oil line what does that do?

Yep, gotta run something like intercooler piping all the way from the turbo up to the TB.

I need oil line because turbos NEED oil. Without oil, the turbo bearings will fry.

I'm just going to get an electric oil pump and put it in my trunk where the spare is. Then I only need a few feet of oil line, which will be easy enough to get. Plus a small reservoir.

I'm also going to try to fabricate a small shield for around the turbo because I don't want it rusting out on me.

Why don't you run a pressurized oil line from where the stock dummy sensor is? And then run the return line to the dummy oil level sensor on the front of the pan so you don't have to drill it.

Also I have a terrible feeling you're going to have some big issues regulating that boost and a few other things. You have balls to do this.

Also what are you doing about a wastegate and blowoff valve?

wow, i caught this a lil late. what kind of gains are you going to get.

I don't want to use the stock oiling because it's going to be REALLY expensive to buy that much oil line, and I'll need a return pump anyway because it will lose so much pressure going that far.

Doing a small stand-alone oiling system will give me the advantage of running pure synthetic so I only need a quart or so for the turbo.

The turbo has an internal wastegate so I have NO clue what I'm going to do about that.

Howeve,r I'm trying to find a GReddy Type-S BOV for the system. With a little work, the BOV will act as my wastegate, but it's going to be a lot of trial-and-error to adjust the spring properly so not to let too much boost out at peak pressure.

And if it ever becomes a real issue being twin charged, the M90 block off plate is cheap and I can just run the turbo.

Taz, I spoke with ZZP and when they tried it, the car made more power with just the blower.

I'm not looking for any kind of performance gains, just bragging rights. Although, the *sounds* are deffinately going to be a perk

This standalone oil system seems extremely unnecessary to me: I run over 6 feet of line for my CSC with no issues. I know a guy who has 15 feet of lines for his turbo and oil cooler, with no issues. You turbo doesn't neex extremely high pressure oil. 50 psi is good. My car sits around 70 psi and I couldn't imagine a 20 psi drop from some longer tubing. Also, INTENSE did a dual turbo by the muffler design and they just ran oil lines. If you go standalone anyway, make sure you're not over 80 psi and it will likely blow past the seals and into your intake. Also you don't need high oil pressure on the return side... its just being dumped back into your oil pan, so forget a return pump. Just make your return line larger than the incoming line so that it doesn't build up pressure in your seal.
Also, that braided tubing is fairly cheap, WAY cheaper than your 2nd pump setup would be... ebay had it for $30 for 10 feet last time I looked.

Also, a BOV will not act as a wastegate at all. Wastegate regulated exhaust flow, and BOV/bypass simply prevent compressor surge on the air intake side. A BOV might work if you leave its vacuum line disconnected -- but you're going to need to cut or change the spring because it will be MUCH to firm for say 10 psi to open it by itself without manifold vacuum to help pull it open. I would recommend a dedicated dump valve for your boost hard limmiting (especially since "trial and error" means "error" till you get it right, which can lead to "boom"... lahl), then run the blowoff valve like normal, with vacuum line controlling. You should be able to find a cheap manual boost controller to tie into the wastegate too.


Also, BOV sounds on an automatic are nothing like a BOV sounds for manual transmissions. Your throttle boddy is open full through the shifts so theres no reason for it to 'blow-off' other than when you let up on the gas a lot, which would just confuse the PCM if you did that at shifts.

Let me know if you want some help with the pressure regulating / oil stuff. I may not have a turbo, but my car buddies are turbo-heads and I've had my fun with oil routing.

I'm looking for an oil pump running 45-60 psi. I've been reading some stuff and some guy has a Shurflo pump that's pumping 60 psi at 1 GPM.

But I can't find that pump anywhere. So now I'm looking for a pump on Flojet just so I know I won't get shafted on the purchase.

So really, as far as help is concerned, I need to know how hot the oil will get and where to get a pump that can handle the heat. I'm sure ANY pump will do, but it needs to take that heat.

And this things wastegate is confusing the HECK out of me. All it is is a hole in the turbine housing, right next to the fins. When you bolt the 5-bolt flange to it, it blocks it off...

But anyway, here's the priority list.

1) Get the oiling set up. This comes first!
2) Mount the turbo to the exhaust and hang everything.
3) THEN worry about a wastegate once I figure out what kind of boost it will be pushing
4) Get the charge tubing routed and install the BOV.

I would have thought that getting oil to this thing would have been SOOOO much easier.

So it looks like I'm going to go buy some cheap BOV now because zuul is right, I forgot that the only time I will hear the BOV is when I rev the engine, never while racing.

Zuul, any, and I mean ANY help you or your friends can give me is greatly appreciated. I'm starting to get frustrated and wondering it it's even worth it anymore and I don't like that feeling.

EDIT:

Here's the website I've been reading. If they guy did it to a Z24 Cavalier, should be fine for me. He used a .48 A/R on the turbine and mine's a .63 so I'm hoping it's not too small. And besides, it's one of those ebay turbos so it probably won't last long anyway. Although, their rep looks really good...

http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/power-adder/238864-another-remote-mount-turbo.html

EDIT Again:

I'm considering running the oil line the full length of the car. I can buy just like 20ft of hose and put brass fittings in it right?

I'll just use a 4-way connector at the sender unti, so I've got an oil pressure gauge and then oil running back to the turbo.

I'm still going to use a scavange pump though and pump it back up and dump it into the valve cover. That will work right?

I think you will be fine just routing it without an extra pump and junk. I would use a smaller line going to the turbo, and a larger line for the return.

As a second thought, the benefit of the stand-alone system is that if you break on oil line somehow, only your turbo is screwed, and your engine will be fine

Or 3 way if you remove the dummy sensor since you'll have a gauge anyway. I would try to make it simple as possible in that little area... there is not much room! I would be tempted to run the line straight out of the block, back to the turbo, put a T right before the turbo and measure your oil pressure from back there instead. Just an idea to help clean things up by the engine and to know what kind of pressure is at the turbo.
Also, oil connectors/flanges/T's are not all that fun to do. I spent hours just re-doing mine until there were no leaks. Stupid pressure fittings.

All oil return lines are supposed to be routed into the side of the oil pan. So you can either drill a hole (youd have to pull the pan, sucks) or pull out the dummy oil level sensor and replace it with your return line. Theres a fitting I used that makes it easy.
There is no point in using a pump after the turbo, especially since its not going all the way UP to the valve covers... the pan will be close to the same level as your turbo so it won't need as much oomph to get there, so thats the point of spraying oil into your pan instead of just letting it flow?

I think I mentioned before-- if you use an extra pump at all, use it right before the turbo just so the engine's oil pump doesn't have to strain as much.

Ok. For now, I'm scrapping the scavange pump unless I decide I need it.

But I have a new question. Where exactly is the sender? It's the thing just behind the oil filter bracket right? If so, then where is the oil level dummy light?

Zuul, what size fitting is that for the dummer light replacement? Will removing that sensor throw a code/light at me?

I order 20ft of -6 AN braided hose from summit racing last night, along with a bunch of fittings.

So, what size are the fittings for the sender and the dummy light. I guess I can buy adapters later when I need to.

Yes. As you're looking at it from the wheel well, with the oil filter off, its just to the left around the corner.
The "dummy sensor" is threaded into it. It should look like a big bolt with a wire coming out of it. It just lights up the "low oil pressure" bulb on your dash cluster when the oil pressure is below a certain point. If you'll have an oil pressure gauge this obviously is useless.

I'm not sure. I can rumage through my stuff and see if I have some extra fittings. Removing the sensor will make the bulb on the dash light up. It is not connected to the PCM at all... just to that bulb. I beleive you can ground the sensor wire to trick it into thinking its normal.

Ok, so I get pressurized oil from the sender unit as well as replace the dummy sensor with the oil pressure gauge.

So where do I return the oil? IIRC there is a sensor plugged into the front of the oil pan as well. Is that an oil level sensor? Can I reutnr the oil there?

Yes I said that twice

omg I need to pay more attention lmao!

Well, $150 later I've got a free Summit Racing hat and the oil fittings for the return line BUT!!!!

I ordered the wrong kind of fittings for the sending line so now I need to get to a parts store, match-fit a whole new set-up, and go from there.

Make sure when you're figuring out what pieces to use by the sender that you make sure it all fits in there. That pressure sender is quite large.
When you get it together, tripple check for leaks, then keep checking over time.

Let's see here.

Turbo- check
Turbo flange welded to piping- check
Turbo air filter- check
20ft stainless -6AN braided oil line- check
oil return fittings- check

oil sending fittings- NOT CHECK
Turbo oil DRAIN FLANGE!!!!!- NOT CHECK

I ordered that stupid flange on the 12th, was notified by PayPal shpping that they were notified to expect the package on the 14th. STILL HAVE NOT GOTTEN IT!

I REALLY hate USPS. From now on it's UPS only!

Sounds like it's coming pretty well... I just noticed, what happeneded with your transmission? Did you have ZZP rebuild it or what?

Well, it started to slip a long time ago.

Then, I don't know if you remember me talking about the rpms kinda "stairstepping" or "chugging" under throttle.

At some point during that time, I had my tranny rebuilt by my mechanic and had him install the ZZP shift kit.

Wish I would have had the cash to get a ZZP tranny but I was pushing it as it was.