future gt(u)

pulley 3.2
xp hot cam, with 105# spings and a double timing chain
fuel logs
injectors #33
fuel rewire kit
ss intercooler
headers with dp
ported M90
LMI

this will all be done this year most likely the end of summer. zzp will do it for 1100. what do you think of the setup, is there anything im missing, besides an empty wallet of course...

I think the top end swap guys should chime in on this. But I'm pretty sure you're going to need more stuff if you want a blower. Use the top-end swap stuff as a guideline and modify as necessary

well im getting the ss m90 kit from them

I would say maybe start at like 3.4 then go down from there. But I am not as modded as those items you are getting. You need a Mr. Tuner or a power tuner, if you know what I mean. And make that two wallets!

i thought with the ssm90 kit they start you off at a 4.0 pulley? wouldn't 3.2or even 3.4 be pushin it? maybe you should add a scanner to your list.

Well with those mods I think a 3.3" would be pretty safe, because those are some pretty solid mods. Just "scan scan scan"!

zzp was telling me with the intercooler and cam swap i should be able to lower it... ill wait and read from other wisdom givers haha but i do thank you all for making this the best investment

I enjoy doing business with them. They are usually right about their responses, however, each car is different, as I found out, and you need to tune and tune many many times even though you have supporting mods.

oh fun another thing ill buy.. haha but how do you think it will run? how quick do you feel its gonna be?

Not sure, diff between not tuned and tuned, I'll tell you that much. BigggggDiff! I would say going from like a 4 cyl to a 8 cyl. Couldn't think of two cars to compare. Maybe gt mustang up to a C6 corvette.

Tuning makes a world of difference. I know my MAF values and O2's are wayy off because of the cam I installed. I was outrun by my friend's 14.11 Z28 camaro by about a length, but that was shortly after my top end swap. After my tune though, I'm wanting to hit 13.99 or better, but from what I've heard, a good tune can give you up to 30hp and a couple tenths in the quarter.

With that setup you WILL NEED a tune. No ifs ands or buts about it.

ok i understand about the tune but is there anything im missing???? i read more about that ssm90 and they were saying to run a 3.2 or smaller you need all these gtp pulley i dont what they are or where to get them? but what im getting its gonna be a good set up.. oh what gauges should i run with?

ZZP's SS M90 pulleys are offset for use with 1 belt, and they do not make them smaller than 3.25.

Where are you getting all this money from?

ok, you are deffinately going to need a powrtuner. Nor ifs, ands or buts. That is wayyyy too much power/mods to be messing around with. If you are dropping thousands on a motor then your tranny isnt going to hold up to a pulley that small. I cant believe you want to drop pulleys that quickly. Im scared to drop at all. But its your car, and if you got the money, go for it.

Gauges arent neccessary. I run Oil pressure, boost and A/F

x2, I don't wanna ruin all of my hard work and money!

its called going to school and the government giving u money haha.... cant wait to go back... that and i got a lil from my mother passing almost 14 years... its only like 27... for everything but yea zzp i was talking with them and they were saying that with that set up i could prob run a 3.2... and if you look under the question about pulley it says you would have to run gtp pulleys and what not so i dont know hence why im comming to you

gtp pulleys? maybe they mean the idler and tensioner pulleys for the supercharger.

To use standard pulleys on the SS kit you would have to install a GTP balancer and all of the accessory pulleys from a GTP.

thats whats zzp tells me ....

yeah, the L36 crank pulley only has one set of ribs on it, the L67 crank pulley has 2 sets of ribs (1 for the acc. belt and 1 for the S/C belt)

you also need the 2 idler pulleys and 1 tensioner pulley

so those will be able to be added to the l36?? how much do they run where do you get them at? would i need the tensioner pulley even though i will have a double timing chain

Yes, it will work but you may need the CP bracket.

tensioner has nothing to do with the timing chain.

Ed morad is the best place to get all the pulleys

How did you get that all from zzp for $1100? That's a heck of a deal.

I figure ~500 for headers, 200 for the cam, 500 for the SSIC and you are already more than what they quoted you for everything on your list.

I'll let you negotiate my mods from now on if you can get a deal like that.

ok ill have to have a chat with him then... what do you think of the set up?? a lil too much?

no. the pulley scares me a little bit. i would go with the MPS and maybe get a 3.4 and a 3.3 pulleys. But just get a scanner/tuner. i think your car will haul with all of those mods. If you can afford it, do it. and save for your poor transmission. it wont be very happy with you

lol i hear you... no the whole amount for this is running around 2800 the headers are around a k and they would install it for 1100 but im thinking its cheaper to find a shop around here to do the work ive contacted one place but no word back yet..

ordonez what do you mean by a MPS? so let say i dont go that far down right now and go with a 3.4 just try that out and c how it goes? do you think the engine will be able to hold that much boost? i was scared cause on there site it said with the 3.2 it could run about 12 lbs of boost.....

MPS= Multi Pulley System

Once installed makes pulley swaps much easier. Very useful for future modding that allows smaller and smaller pullies.

where do you get that at? will it work on my L36?

Sweet six pound, eight ounce baby Jesus... this is getting a little ridiculous. No way can all this stuff be done for $1100.

Especially since you're paying ZZP to do it instead of doing it yourself. Not a chance. With all the stuff you say you're gonna do... you're in the $3,000ish ballpark anywho. Heck, the L36 SS M90 kit alone is right around a grand and can be more depending on how much you get your cores for.

The MPS presses into the snout of the supercharger, its not a matter of compatibility with the L36, it's just a fast method for switching S/C pullies only. The tensioner/idler pullies can be switched on without any problems. Just get a good air impact gun for the crank pulley.

While boost is directly related to pulley size and thus blower RPM's, you won't necessarily see 'X' amount of boost with a 'Y' size pulley. It's all about how well air flows into and out of the engine. Get an intake, headers, cam, and your boost numbers will drop. That's because you are moving more air, more efficiently through the motor, so more boost isn't necessarily better or worse. Right now, I see 7-8 psi at WOT, well ordonez did headers and I think he gets about 6.

You need to understand what you are doing to your car. It's fairly evident to me that you don't totally understand this stuff, you just gotta realize everything that's involved with everything you're talking about, you cant just say yeah, I'm getting a cam and headers, and the SS kit, and an intercooler and a race trans, and whatever else under the sun... it's simply not that easy. Before my top swap, I thought I knew alot about these motors and my car, well guess what I knew practically nothing. Its a much bigger process than I can stress or explain.

Be prepared to chunk out some serious dough, you're gonna halfta be either all the way in, or all the way out, there's no in between.

Rant finished

x2 on the prices, information, and knowledge.....it takes so much time money and knowledge to even think about completing that engine work

ok well just for everyone knows the kit with the everything i listed is around 2700 or 2800 and they will do the work for 1100... thats for the install of it all ...i know i have no idea what im doing all i know is that its a big whole in my wallet.. and thats why im comming to you all for help and all im getting told is to get told supporting mods this and supporting mods that so im getting supporting mods and it doesnt seem to connect.... and since i know nothing about it all i only know a lil im willing to spend more to have it done right ... so instead of running me around the bush come out and tell me what i should do ...

i keep repeating myself here. If i had the cash i would do all of this, but you are going to have to spend the cash!!! Do you understand that you are spending 2800+1100 install. Thats almost 4 grand. Plus a tuner, plus a tranny. You are going to dump almost 7 grand into your car, and since you keep on saying smaller pulley smaller pulley, you are going to run the risk of popping a piston. You are dumping that kind of cash into a car that is work around 5k. You better be ready for a serious invenstment that is going to break stuff. There is an old saying "Cheap, fast, reliable, you can only pick 2".

We are here to help, but it just isnt working, i keep saying the same thing over and over again. It just seems like you should keep learning before you jump into something like this.

ok im not getting the tranny yet i never had a thought of it i know i would need one later down the road... so ok i wont start with a 3.2 start i will start at about a 3.5 or so and save and tune save and tune until everything is good

$$$$$

ok i guess you guys are tired of me with this top swap but i was staying up late last night looking around and trying to figure everything out when i was remined that ordonez and drummerboy did the cheaper top swap... whats the diff between that and the ssm90? besides the obvious price? if you go that route should you make sure the LMI and Blower are ported? how do you go about moding after words do you treat it as a L67 or L36? i know i have a lot of learning to do and well it all starts someplace.....

The actual top swap is cheaper, but more work.

The ZZP kit is quite simple because it doesn't require all the parts such as swapping heads, crank pulley etc, but it is more expensive. I spent about $1200 on everything for my top swap, that includes parts, gaskets, misc items and meals to pay the people who helped me. I did the regular top swap with an Intense Stage 1 cam.

With both methods you should have the blower and lim ported to help distribute the boost better among the 6 cylinders and keep the S/C temps down lower. I would say go for it with a 3.5", you should definitely be fine if you get the XP, but if you're scanning and you see 0* knock and all the parameters look good, drop pulley sizes. You will have to be extremely careful because each car will react differently and require different mods.

I'm already saving for a built tranny because these cars have very weak trannies and they will not be able to handle all of that additional HP and torque the new setup will be putting out. If you go through with all this you should expect to have that done too.

Hope that helps some... really we are here to help but there are so many things to take into consideration that it's all pretty overwhelming at times. You just have to plan carefully and know your goals, as well as how much money you have to spend.

thanks drummerboy... yea i happened to come across the wbodystore they have the kit for 1299 or so and since im planning on have someone work on it for me what the hell save money... but what kind of intercooler can i run with this? would we mod for the L67 or L36??

Mod for the L67, but be much more careful than modding with an L67, because of the higher compression ratio. For example, I have an N/A cam grind, but idealistically you would get a blower cam grind for better results, and you can drop pulleys like an L67.

ok now i was reading the top swap vs ssm90 post and well if i get that kit from wbody right and right away send them to zzp to get ported if i choose the option for the ss m90 port would that work? or no and what is this egr hole fill they do?

another ? drummerboy why did you go with that cam? whats better the xp hot cam or one of intense blower cam?

The XP cam can be run with stock heads, so for your purposes it's probably best... I bought the Intense cam from Chico on here for $100, couldn't say no to that deal, it works fine but you'd get better results from a blower cam.

On the porting you can do it yourself with a dremel and some patience, but with ZZP's port job... if you go with the regular top swap, just select "outlet only" under option 1. If you go with the ZZP SS M90 kit, select "mod'd for use on SS L36 kit". For the SS kit, they port the outlet the same, but also make other modifications necessary for the kit to work.

ok and what about the timing chain?? get the double or stay with the single?

it looks like the 1X intense cam is the better one to get

You'll have to do some research and decide based on your money situation, I don't know the pros and cons of switching to a double roller so I can't really comment on that, when I installed my cam, I replaced the timing chain but it was just a new stock replacement, and it was only for peace of mind.

You replaced the dampener too, right? When I stuck my cam in, I replaced with a stock chain and dampener as well. I went over the whole single vs double roller in another thread (maybe one of yours), try searching for it.

BTW, the XP cam is slightly bigger than the 1X.

Nope, I bought one to replace it, but mine was fine? I hope that doesn't come back to haunt me...

If your looks ok, it is fine. Hang on and let me post a pic of the one that came off my engine.

Ok, check out the wear:

the xp is better the the 1x blower cam

its bigger

is bigger better? whats the best cam for the top swap... not the ss kit

xp is a good cam for the swap

ok cause i was having a chat with intense prior to this and they told me to go with the 1x blower cam and ATI TCS-3000 or 3250 Torque Converter.... i dont know what that is or where its located on the engine

when i was on break i opened up the hood and was looking around cing how everythings fits and what stuff is its starting to make sense but i dont a lil more research doesnt hurt haha

but what if i go with the xp hot cam would that converter work?

The converter sits between your engine and tranny. You have to pull one or the other to install it. It will help with launching, but it isn't necessary. Something for down the road imo. It has no bearing on the cam.

Of course Intense will recommend their own cam over someone elses.

but since i have the weaker tranny would it spear me till i afford a new tranny?

Yep, I've got the same trans as you (4T60-E) and it'll hold up for awhile. I'm already saving to get a new one. Don't burnout much (if at all) just do all you can to preserve the life of the transmission and it will be okay.

Rook I was thinking the same thing... Intense would never recommend the XP, since they don't make it.

ok heres another twist lol was on ebay saw ed selling an L67 with tranny for 1800 with 82K

keep to the top swap?

.. Avoid Intense at all costs. They might have a few good things, but if anything would EVER happen to go wrong, they will most likely rape money out of your face.

Yes, right out of it.

And that's all I have to contribute unfortunately.

y is that ??

? i happened to go online and found a 00 l67 with tranny with 82 k on it what should i do keep with the top swap or switch to the other side??

Top swap. You will enjoy still having 329's in your transmission instead of lousy GTP gearing which are 293's.

ok so what are u doing to yours since we have the same trany...

What do you mean what am I doing?

well are u getting the zzp tranny? i was looking at one of those just to c how much then run and they have way to many options

Not sure yet. That's what I was thinking but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. I'll probably just get a standard race trans build with the HD-components and a 2500 stall.

but wouldnt that be the same as getting a gtp tranny?

More or less, but with 329 gearing still and the stall converter to help with launches.

so pretty much just go with the wbody store top swap or how do you get eds parts... does it come with the gaskets?

w-body store top-swap is $1300 for the hard parts and the gaskets. read http://www.wbodystore.com/grandprix/w-body-store-supercharger-conversion-kit-p-157.html . they have an installation kit

drummerboy i think i heard you recall you couldnt use the L67 MAP is that so? and if so Y

Actually matching cams and proper stall rpm converters is important. Basically iirc the more wild the cam the higher the stall needs to be on the converter. Too much cam and not enough converter will turn out to be a dog.

he had a problem with his L67 map sensor. When i did mine, the L67 map sensor was fine. So i sold him my L36 MAP sensor. I think its pretty hit or miss with that

On the 97's you have to use the L36 MAP sensor. This is because the PCM cannot be flashed over to use GTP files, because of the 4T60-E tranny. Without flashing over to the GTP files, your PCM cannot control the L67 MAP or the Boost Bypass Valve.

The L36 MAP has been fine up to this point for me.

so how do you change it? change the tranny?

Dont worry about it... no reason to change the tranny in order to use the L67 MAP. Trust me the L36 one is fine.