LG8 -> L67 Swap Project Log

Ok, got the engine at work on Thursday, didn't see it until Friday and I'm just now getting around to looking over everything that was sent. After I get the engine and tranny home, I'll snap some pics.

I'm also trying to resolve some wire harness issues with Ed. The one he sent me was in poor shape, some broken connectors (one falls apart if you touch it) and some wires in one place were mashed. That portion had a few wires, no big deal to splice, right? Well on down from that was a cut almost severing a main portion of the wire harness. I'd have to splice near 20 wires. Nope, not gonna seeing as I paid a nice lump of money for the setup. I'm still waiting on his reply. I sent him these pics from my Razr:







On a happier note, I received my cam setup on Friday. So, here's some pics of the XP:





While at work today, I also ordered some solid engine and tranny mounts. Both were $10 cheaper than ZZP (which hasn't had them in stock for some time) and come with a lifetime warranty.

where did you get your engine mounts for 10 bucks cheeper than zzp??

AutoZone. They're Duralast brand and special order. Just have the guy look down the mount list (it brings up a bunch). They were at the bottom and listed as solid when I looked them up.

#866223 Motor Mount (Solid) $37.99 ($49.99 @ ZZP)
#866209 Trans Mount (Solid) $29.99 ($39.99 @ ZZP)

nice find on the mounts!

Ed should take care of you on the harness... you could always get some splicing crimp connectors, it wouldn't be too bad, just a big lump in your harness!

good luck.

I really don't want any crimp connections. They can vibrate loose, so it'd be time consuming having to do it the proper way and solder/shrink wrap each wire. Ugh. Plus, it doesn't fix the fubared connectors.

Yeah, I was surprised on the mounts as well. Interesting we carried solid ones at work... when I saw them and the price, I jumped on it.

remember Ed deals in used parts. The damage was probably done in an accident. Ed pulled the motor disconnected the wires boxed it up and shipped.

Yes, but when you pay for a part it has to be workable. He doesn't sell used, yet broken parts.

BTW, he sent me an email back apologizing saying he'd fix me up. He also mentioned be might choke some of his employees with it. :p

That sucks. I actually had to splice wires together on a working harness in a 99 gtp. Near the radiator cap it burnt through it and melted like 8 wires. That was fun. I may have pics on my sig webpage.

Good that he's gonna take care of you... hopefully you'll be able to get that new motor swapped in soon! Definitely keep us updated!!

eds a good guy, i mentioned i was from migpc and grandprix.net, hed never heard of gp.net signed up and apprecaited me pointing him here, and the hud he had for sale on ebay which is what i was talkin to him about he has on hold for me til i get money to pay him for :] hes a nice dude

how do we get ahold of this guy again?

gtped@msn.com iirc.

yep

can someone tell me wtf iirc is =X internet relay chat? im so confused! everytime i see it im like hmph whats it mean...but im like i dont want them to think im dumb....please, enlighten me :]

iirc means "if I recall (or remember) correctly"

Got the engine home! While I was at work, I also had my head gaskets and solid motor/tranny mounts in. Yay!

Tomorrow I'll post engine pics, send the wire harness back to Ed, and my headers should arrive.

you gonna keep your car the mary kay pink or are you planning on repainting?

I say keep the pink, but update the bumpers! Get them match painted! Maybe some nicer looking wheels and you've got an extremely unique ride!

Sounds like things are coming along well. Only things I can think of to mention at this point are to check/replace the injector o-rings, and it might be cool to get a new shifter with performance shift on it, and wire that up.
I see your sig says you're considering the power tuner... I say go for it if you're willing to wait. Or pick on up on clubgp classifieds if you can catch one.
Bill

how do u just rig up perf shift, dont u need a new pcm/hd trans?

I'm keeping the pink. I had considered a color change many times, but with the added power it can take up for itself. Plus, women generally like it.

zuul, one step ahead of you. I've got GT bumpers and torque stars. I just need to get the former painted and tires for the latter. I've got a GT catback coming from Ed soon as well.

I've still not decided on what I'm going to do for a tune, but the powrtuner seems like the best option. If I got a ZZP PCM ($109) I'd have to buy a scanner as well ($225+). That puts me almost at the price of a powrtuner anyway.

Injectors o-rings are on my 'to do' list. I need to replace them anyway since I'll be pulling the intake. I'm also planning on painting the blower casing and valve covers while they're off. What color goes good with pink? I'll have red ignition wires. Also, think red-blue color morphing paint would work for the bottom of the front and rear bumpers?

BTW, can someone check their '99+ GTP engine for me. On the back where the MAP sensor mounts. Is there something supposed to be attached beside it on left on the same bracket? I've got an area there with two threaded holes, but nothing is there. I wanted to make sure I'm not missing a sensor.

You need a GTP PCM (which I am using for the engine swap). I have an HD trans, but that doesn't matter.

Perf Shift is just a set of computer tables that activate and command higher shift points, high line pressure, and skip shifts in aftermarket PCMs.

Cool.

I think I found perf shift tables in my GT pcm file, so they're there. I'd have to look again to see if they're actually tweaked any different from the normal tables. Interesting.

Another cool powertuner / tranny tric... Theres shift tables for each gear shifter position. So I set it up so the PCM can't downshift when in 2 and 3. In other words, I can give it a good 2nd gear flooring when going 15mph. Doesn't make you any faster by any means, but is nice when you wanna go fast-ish without letting your engine rev like crazy. And low-end WOT power/sound is coool.
Bill

As promised, here she is fresh off the truck:



Let's take a look under that engine cover.



Nasty fuel injectors.



Oops, where did that blower go?!



Ah, there it is!



I started disassembly today, obviously. Anyone have any advice for things I should do to help either disassemble or reassemble? drummerboy?

Also, did some of these cars come stock with NGK platinum plugs? I pulled 'em and that's what they were, looked original. In fact, the whole thing looks 100% unmolested. Still had what I believe were the factory wires on it (they were ACs) and it definately had valve covers leaking as well.

atleast you can replace the gaskets with the engine out lol makes it a little easier :]

oh! and how much u end up paying out the door for it? shipped too

$1500 + $130S&H = $1630

Included:
-L67 w/ accessories
-4t65e-hd tranny
-Wiring harness
-Driver/panneger CV axles

no offense bro, but why didnt you just buy a gtp? your spending so much money, i would have sold you my car for like 5 grand... thats prolly less than you've spent modding your car.

1. My car isn't worth but around $3k now, let alone the tranny is starting to have problems and the engine blew a gasket. I'd be lucky to get $2k for it... otherwise I'd have replace the parts and be back where I am. Plus, pink is hard to sell.

2. With the engine/tranny, I'd only be out the $1630, then I'd have a GTP for that much, but I'm modding it.

3. With all the items I'm buying/going to buy, I'll have about $7k invested in the vehicle, including the original purchase. I'm coming out about even had I bought a GTP to begin with, but I get more go-fast goodies and a fresh build from the heads up.

4. At least I know this vehicle and its quirks since I've owned it for over 2 years now. Something I'd have to relearn with a new one.

5. I wanted a car project.


Anyway... Just got back from mailing Ed the fubared wire harness and saw the UPS man. He gave me these:

Sounds justified to me. As long as the car isn't rusted badly then just replacing big stuff is the way to go. And fun!

Hope you're gunna get everything squeaky clean on that engine before dropping it in! And yeah get some new valve cover gaskets. Do the dler/tensioner pulleys look OK? Can't think of anything else to check out. Clean up that M90 and polish up your fuel rail while its off.

Question... are you putting the headers on, THEN dropping the engine in? Would that work?

Those pipes look awesome.

Yes, everything is getting cleaned. The inside of the intake manifold, blower and throttle body is horrid. Probably combination of EGR/PCV. Either way, it has to be removed. I don't know if I'll polish the fuel rail, that looks like a big hassle. Maybe clean and a coat of paint?

Already got valve cover gaskets with the cam kit. I've also been looking over the idlers, they seem ok. I might replace them anyways, but first I've got to order some coolant elbows. The piece in the intake forward of the o-ring didn't come out.

Yes, everything is getting cleaned. The inside of the intake manifold, blower and throttle body is horrid. Probably combination of EGR/PCV. Either way, it has to be removed. I don't know if I'll polish the fuel rail, that looks like a big hassle. Maybe clean and a coat of paint?

Already got valve cover gaskets with the cam kit. I've also been looking over the idlers, they seem ok. I might replace them anyways, but first I've got to order some coolant elbows. The piece in the intake forward of the o-ring didn't come out.

Three words:
Billet. Fuel. Rails.

Three numbers
400

if you havet he extra then get them they are sweet looking but if you dont need them spend the 400 on something else. Let put it to a nice SS intercooler.

Get both! You'll need to fix the fuel rails for a SSIC anyway.

Bah. I'm not that anal about looks. I wouldn't even have had the headers ceramic coated, but I've heard the finish on the painted ones were for shipping and you'd have to strip and repaint them yourself and all that junk.

If I had an intercooler (I'd get a Stage 2 at the minimum, no SS), I'd just get their $100 modified rails. In fact, I had considered it anyway. That will be a future upgrade I guess.

Anyway, back to the present and my woes of trying to get 1/4-20 bolts to get the crank pulley off. The ones in the kit are too big.

Just an update: The cam is now installed. Timing cover is still off, need to clean up the gasket surfaces, then it goes back on.

Both heads are off. One is untouched, the other is 100% reassembled with new valve seals, 105s, and modded retainers.

Ed and me are still trying to work out the harness problems. He received my damaged harness and shipped a GS harness, not knowing it had to be a GTP (he tried calling me, but I was busy at work). All he knew is that I was doing a swap, but he didn't know what kind. Anyway, he's getting a '00 GT in soon and he's going to ship it to me along with the GT -> GTP conversion kit.

Finally, gasket removal is a PITA. That is all.

Sounds like it's going good. I'm sure that cam went in pretty easy with it being out of the car!! I know mine sure was.

You have a gasket scraper, right? That sure makes life alot easier.

Yep, I have a gasket scraper, and it's hard enough with it. I'd be swearing and more without it.

for the fuel rails just get aluminum engine paint. Thats what i did

Will do.

BTW, for future reference:

• Crank pulley requires three 1/4x28 3" bolts for removal. 1/4x20 was the wrong thread pitch.
• Crank bolt: 15/16" socket
• Cam Bolt: 1 1/8" socket

New timing chain and dampener installed, along with a new timing cover seal. I also reinstalled the timing cover. While I was there I cleaned up the head mating surfaces on the block... just some final cleaning there and the heads can go back on. After the heads get back on, it's time for the new oil pan gasket.

Yeah, I found that out too because the bolts that came with the harmonic balancer kit were wrong. Luckily one of the guys helping me had done it several times and brought the correct bolts with him.

FAQ? or something i know i will need this one day

Or maybe Herc could post those types of things on his webpage somewhere, or in conjunction with the torque specs? I agree that will be helpful at some point in the future probably.

OK, latest update. The engine is practically put together. The A/C compressor and starter are still off, but the top is reassembled. All I like is torquing the dampener bolt and changing the oil pan gasket. At that point, its time to yank my old engine and swap in this one.

It might get finished some day.

dang dude, good to hear an update, I was wondering what had been happening. any pics?

Here's one from earlier today:

NICCCCE!

That looks really great Rook. Can't wait to see the beast thumping under the hood. I know it probably makes you cringe to think of spending any more money, but you might want to beef up that tranny a little. Consider a 2500 stall converter, hardened 4th clutch shaft, etc. Just a thought.

Lookin' nice...

that looks sharp but I'm surprised you didnt go with pink valve covers

haha pink valve covers

or a pink blower!

looks good rook!

It's kinda hard to find pink high temp paint. Anyway, I needed some red to go with my wires.

Looks like you may be doing some home mixing to get you some PINK!

i cant wait till you start listing ricers u beat and say how they were crying after because they got beat by a pink grand prix im gunna love it....THE PINK PANTHER ROCKS

It's gonna be a sleeper, no doubt about it!

WOW! She looks good! cant wait to hear how the pedel feels when you stomp it!

x2!

I'm already expecting to buy a PT and MPS. At $500 I still need to spend, I really don't want to invest anymore at the current time. I will have a spare tranny to play with though.

I really got into tearing the engine compartment apart. Yesterday I took the bumper off and drained the radiator, etc. So, today I took out the wire harness (omg, what a pain, mainly due to the little harness clips), removed the PS pump, disconnected the tranny lines, unbolted the front engine mounts (had to the get the harness off), removed the intake, disconnected the throttle and cruise cables, removed heater hoses, as well as the evap line, body vacuum line, and brake booster line. Hopefully I only have 5 things left: fuel lines, axles, tranny cable, a/c, and downpipe.

Pics:

Lookin very good dude. I can't wait to see it when its done. How much longer do you think its gonna be?

Keep us updated.

If I had to guess, sometime before my birthday in August. I swear, it's taking way longer than I planned. However, as of today I'm done with college classes. So, it should speed up, weather and work permitting.

Oh don't worry, haha, there will be like 10 more things. I went through the same thing pulling a VW 1.8 (old version).

Have fun with it though.

I may have to slightly re-route my vacation path next summer just to cruise into town and check out this bad azz pink cat...I think a few red accents will give it some contrast and a little eye candy all at the same time. I'd go with some red calipers as well. Keep up the good work, cant wait to see the finished project.

I'm right off I-75, exit 38 or 41.

OK, the old engine/tranny is ready to pull. It will be out as soon as I get some buds over to help. The L67 just got new axle seals (one I need a seal driver to finish installing), and it's currently suspended from the lift getting a new oil pan gasket.

I've sent a request to Ed for a shift knob and accelerator cable. I'm also going to have to extend the fuel lines. From there, it should be time to drop it back in and hook everything up where it came from. The EVAP system should hook up fine and the main body vacuum line just needs a short extension. Everything else should be straight bolt-up.

Also, for anyone who has replaced CV axles, how did you go about doing it? I had to nearly disconnect almost every part of the spindle assembly to get it out of the spindle section so it could pull loose from the tranny. That was by far the hardest and most consuming part. The factory manual said you had to remove the sway bar end link, tie rod end, and ball joint. Eck.

As a final note, working on old oil pans is a dirty job.

I had both my CV axles replaced at like 50,000 miles. I had my mechanics do it, gave me one hell of a deal. I don't know what they did to extract them and put new ones in. I think I paid like $300-400 for parts and labor.

CV's are interesting...

Usually I end up disconnecting the struts and the tie rods from the knuckles and then twisting the knuckle forward and out.
At that point you can usually push the CV in and then back...

That's an understatement. I went a route similar to you and disconnected the strut instead of the ball joint. Definately a PITA.

Rook, i have a shift knob. its not the PS one though. Let me know!

I'm wanting a PS one, otherwise mine works fine. I reckon I'm ordering one from Ed along with a throttle cable on Friday. Thanks though!

BTW, this is why my 3100 throttle cable won't work: mine on the left, L67 on the right.



(if my host decides to work)

Old engine and tranny is out. Me, a coworker, and one of his friends that has done some engine removals came over. We had to remove the hood, but other than that, 15mins and it and the tranny were resting on the ground. I'll have some pics later.

Anyone need some 3100 engine parts?

I take it you disconnected mostly everything before starting the 15 minute job? haha

Sweet rook. You sure you wont be done till the end of summer? It doesn't sound like you have a lot left to do. Just throw that L67 back in there in let 'er rip.

Thats awesome rook. Just kinda wondering why you had to remove the hood. Clearance, im assuming?

I had to take my hood off to pull the motor... not enough room otherwise.

Yeah. When lifting out the engine/tranny together, it sags quite a bit on the tranny side. No way it was clearing with the hood on. I think I might even need to remove the master cylinder to put the L67 back in. We were having clearance issues with the smaller 3100 attached.

Zuul, yeah. Probably a few hours work for me to take the harness off, etc. The downpipe had me stuck trying to figure out how to remove the driver's side bolt... broke a u-joint for the ratchet in the adventure. Cv axles were a right up there as well.

Kev, I would but so much needs to be done before hand. Right now I'm trying to rip the throttle cable out to replace with Ed's (which is due later this week). I also discovered I need a different power steering pressure hose from the one I bought, so I'll have to order that. I've also got to remove the exhaust and have my friend weld up a dual setup. That doesn't even include not having a pcm tailored to the vehicle or a smaller pulley. Although, it will be drivable without the latter two, assuming the '99 GTP pcm plays nice with my '00 SE.

You're gonna be running super rich due to the cam. You'll definitely need some tuning.

I was 990+ O2's.

Took me a bit longer, but oh well. Anyway, here's the pics:

Looks like you're making good progress! I can't believe how much of a sleeper that thing is gonna be. mid-low 13 second car most likely!

Congrats man! Thats some pretty impressive progress!

Engine in! Just got done shoving in the axles. Passenger suspension is reassembled, still lacking on driver. I've got just about all the harness leads hooked up and just need to get the rear header on, A/C hooked up, and TB installed. Then ignition wires and plugs, so we can fire it up. Photo isn't the best, it was taken on the fly with my Razr.

Did you paint the charger? Is that like grey? Nice headers, but for warn, they will dull some in color, my Plog did, wish it looked like

It's a hi-temp paint by duplicolor called cast iron. But it is a metallic grey. I paint the torque strut brackets to match.

That L67 looks right at home! Nice work Rook

Hmm..that's what those are called.

WOOT! the Panther has grown some muscle

Wow rook, that gives me hope with my 3100. The swap looks real good and good luck with everything.

I might be interested in some parts off your 3100. What are the things that has been replaced on your 3100 from 2005 until now if you can recall.

Plug, Wires, and Starter. The starter has a lifetime warranty and bolts up to the 3800, so I'm still using it. I've got the Taylor wires and AC double platinum plugs with less than 10k miles on them. If you want any parts though, let me know.

Very nice job!

This did include the tranny attached. I swapped in a HD tranny with it. The A/C compressor and oil filter had to be off for clearance reasons.

The actual in and out movements aren't that bad. It's the unhooking and hooking up of parts that is so time consuming.

I can second that!

X3! And it isn't done right unless you: 1. spent more than you thought it would cost, 2. took longer to finish than you realized, 3. broke a couple of bolts and skinned some knuckles, 4. had to make a few trips to the parts store, and 5. have parts left over that you can't identify, but the car runs anyway..

Amen.

That's pretty fun stuff right there!!

It's alive! I got sick of waiting, with only the crossover and rear header in (no collector), filled with coolant, but no drive belt (I got the wrong size) I hooked it up and hit the key. My god what a beautiful sound. XP cam with straight pipes (essentially), sound like a loud V8.

I only let it run for a few seconds due to the lack of waterpump/alternator turning, but man is that a boost to finish this project.

sweet... all this time, and she's almost ready to roll

Nice!

I wonder how close all you top-swapped people are to out-running your MAF sensor (11,500hz max). Anyone scan for that?

All you top swapped? I'm not top swapped. :p

Me, drummer, and ordonez are all top-swapped.

zuul has his CSC kit. (wish *I* could have a supercharger and a BOV...)

My MAF peaked at 9,600 Hz... so I still have quite a ways to until it tops out at 11,500 Hz

so, whatever happened to ordonez? I think he fell off the face of the earth

No idea where he went. Might be busy like me.

Its always a moment to remember when you crank it over for the first time...when it barks and rumbles (even if its rough) its just a thrilling sound and the rush of felling that all the late nights and skinned knuckles were absolutely worth it.
I pulled and rebuilt a 318 from the 67 Dodge I got from my Dad...I had it spread all over the garage...my Mom came out and brought me ice cold lemonade, looked around and said "It'll never run again". Over a week later, late in the evening I finally hit the key with open pipes and promptly ran both my parents out of the house. I over heard my Dad tell my Mom, "the little shit is pretty good isnt he?"
Big congrats on getting the panther to roar...now you'll have the itch to get it driving...two big thumbs up

I might get a vid with my camera Monday, if I get my collector and glasspack I'm using as a resonator installed. It's still got 87 octane in the tank as well, so I'll have to remedy that soon.

As promised. Here's the Panther's purr at idle, with open headers. Quality isn't great, but my digital camera is the only video recorder I have.

http://www.youtube.com/v/axLibsNhMpc

Sick RooK!

BTW, a half a bottle of octane booster should clear that 87 octane problem right up...

Wrong... if you read carefully you will find that those products raise the octane by about 1 point per bottle.

I know one at work mentioned something about 3 octane points. It's a start.

!?!?

Give it a shot... just make sure you read the fine print. People think they instantly have 104 octane and they really have 93 after a whole bottle of it. For $7-10 apiece you might as well just go fill up a portable tank with premium and go from there. With that, at least you'd have 89-90 octane.