12" brake upgrades

Does anybody know what all is needed for them? Somebody is selling some caliper brackets for "upgrading GPs to 12in rotors". I need to replace my rotors so I'm thinking I could get 12" rotors. Do I just use these bigger brackets and keep the same calipers?
(I already know they should fit in my torque star wheels)

Yes. Get brackets from an Impala and rotors from the same. Everything else just bolts up.

Yes, you can use the same calipers. I still have mine. Need to repaint them though.

To get a good feel of parts involved:
http://www.zzperformance.com/grand_prix/products1.php?id=576&catid=138

Yup... Brackets off of a Monte Carlo will bolt right up and allow you to install 12" rotors with your existing calipers.

I'm toying with the ID of getting that ZZP kit....

If you want to do a brake upgrade though, why not upgrade to F-body calipers? Dual piston for much better stopping power, and also aluminum so it saves ya some weight.

I want to know how you can make Camaro brakes fit 15" rims and stock rotors. WBS offers a kit like that, but just swapping over Fbody caliper brackets forces you to use 12" rotors.

I'd rather benefit from the lightweight, dual piston calipers without adding extra rotating mass.

Trust me. You want the 12s.

Member on my local club is selling 12" kit for $85. http://www.cnfcgp.com/forum/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=985&posts=8

OK, another question:
Do the same brake pads fit in there? Or do I need different pads now.

What year monte brakes are we talking? I was gunna pick a set up on ebay for the monte then, and get these brackets.

If you keep your current calipers then you will still use the gp pads.

If you change over to the f-body calipers then you'd have to switch over to using camaro/firebird pads.

So..on this topic...

Say I wanted to go to 12" rotors but wanted to get cross drilled rotors from Ebay and matching cross drilled rotors for the rear...how would I go about knowing I am getting the correct front 12" rotors with the right bolt pattern/thickness/vanes/etc?

I plan to go to updated 12" rotors and dual piston calpiers next week so this is needed info (I could and would just get one of the "kits" but none of them come with just cross drilled rotors and usually come with plain or slotted rotors and also cost a LOT more than I can get them from ebay for)

(I also want black zinc coating/paint for the vanes and hat of the rotors)

If I'm not mistaken, Monte/Impala rotors are your options.

Nope.

Just wondering .. why not? Stock GP brakes are pretty much crap for all the power the GTP makes and how heavy it is.

I want the dual pistons and their benefits, but not 12" rotors (look at the WBS Stage 3 set for what I want). Larger rotors means more mass for the engine to turn, resulting in slower acceleration.

True, but if we were so worried about that, then we should be looking at lighter flywheels, torque converter, etc. Those are rotating faster then rotors... and the energy required to rotate something is proportional to the rotation speed squared. With a gear ratio in first of about 3:1 (not taking converter slip into account so the crank is spinning even faster than 3 times the wheels), your components spinning at engine speed have way higher of an effect (would take 9 times more energy to spin the same mass). My point? Why don't we look into lighter weight engine-speed components?
I'm just defending my desire for better brakes

Well, I do see your point. Dual piston brakes may be better than single piston 12" brakes. I would actually prefer both. I just love being able to stop when I want. That's more important to me that acceleration. Going from light to light was horrific since day 1. A '72 Mustang I drove had better brakes.

Zuulmusic: You will need brake pads for a 04+ GP in order for them to work. Not sure which year for the Monte.
Strongly recommend ceramic pads as I have a LOT less brake dust now. You can get these at any autozone.

EDIT: I see you alread know the benefits of ceramic pads. Nevermind.

So tastybake, did you notice a BIG difference when you upgraded (or should I say upsized)?

The components in the engine are already moving once started. It helps revs to lighten engine components, but since they're moving already, it's not as big a deal to get them moving faster.

Think of moving a round boulder. Getting it moving is the hard part. Once it's rolling, it's not as difficult to increase or maintain speed.

Tires and rotors have to initiate movement every time a car accelerates. It's the reason big rims aren't used on drag cars. Adding an extra inch to the rotor is adding a few pounds per wheel, rotors aren't light. I'd rather have them go on a diet instead, which is why I upgraded to 16" Torque Stars instead of some 17" or 18" aftermarkets. I'm focusing on speed.

Anyway, if you want big brakes, go for it. These are just limitations I place on my car (it's not an autocross). However, if you're going through the expense and trouble, why not just go with Fbody fodder and get the best? I may end up going that route if I can't do them on a stock rotor.

I replaced my rotors with stock a couple months back and I really wish I had upgraded, braking still blows

I hope I'm on the right page here......

If you are wanting to upgrade to 12" brakes with the Monte/Impala Brackets, you are still using the original GP calipers, which use the original GP pads.... If you change calipers, you will most likely need to change the part number for the pads.

Or did I miss something?

crimpton,

You got it...

You'll need to match the pads to the calipers. Not the brackets.

As for the 12" or 11" rotor and speed. Yes the 11" will be a bit faster then the 12" but the gains will be minimal unless your looking for every 1/100th of a second you can get.

the 12" rotor is still close enough to center of rotation to be negligable when compared to a 16" rim and bigger.

Some one asked if the 12" would work on a 15" rim I'd have to say no. Reasoning would be the 12" does not fit the 16" cross lace wheels so I'd say no fit on any 15" wheel.

Yeah. 12" is really only an additional half inch radius.

I chugged some moment of inertia and kinetic energy equations with rotors and tq converter/flywheel mass and dimensions and the rotors are still tiny compared to them, as far as weight reduction benefits.

Parts already moving really doesn't make it much easier to accelerate. Torque converter is always going to be slipping/rotating faster than the wheels (when unlocked) anyway, so its not like it already spinning is giving it an advantage over the wheels being still initially.
Energy required to accelerate a given object from say 0-2000rpms is the same as it would take to accelerate the same object from 2000-4000rpms.

Herc, I just realized my mistake this morning. Thanks for pointing that out.

Just do what you want. Like I said, I might be following you shortly anyway.