Help with twin turbo's

Ok, I have a completely stock 3800 right now. I purchased a cold air intake but i haven't put it in yet. I wanted to twin turbo the engine but i'm not exactly sure as to what all i need to do such as the parts needed to twin turbo it and additional parts i may need to make sure i don't blow my engine up. Any help would be appreciated. You can email me or pm me or whatever. Thanks a lot guys

lets see...
2 Turbos
2 Turbo Mani's
All the oil lines
2 Wastegates
Blow off valve
all the charge piping
exhaust
PCM
Tune
BUILT TRANNY!
Intercooler
Wide-band A/F gauge
Boost Gauge
Boost Controller
im sure i probably missing something... but for the most part there you have it.

twin turbo? wow, you dont beat around the bush when it comes to modding.

Seriously, just go turbo, 2 turbos is more work and know how then you really are ready to tackle. We only have 1 twin turbo car, and it is a very sponsored car.

Just get a turbo setup from ZZP.

but if you really have the $ (probably at least 8-9k) and the know how, i would think you have to contact ZZPerformance directly in order to do it

where are you from in MO? I'm near Kansas City.

Just order the single turbo kit from ZZP. No one really makes parts for a twin turbo so it would cost a fortune.

You can easily be in the 11's with just a single turbo

A twin turbo GP would be awesome. Not sure how much traction you'd get.

Email ZZP and they will guide you (as long as you're buying parts from them, hah) or even design and install it. I'm guessing if you can afford TT, you should be able to afford to do it properly and with their guidance.

Well the money isn't that big of a problem because i'm a student and i'll just apply for more financial aid then i actually need. I want at least a ten second car. I guess I could just put in 1 turbo but i really want to twin it. And yeah i live about thirty miles east of kansas city.

Wow, applying for extra financil aid to pay for a car. I'm sorry but I find that more appauling than your lack of proper engine knowledge.

People like you disgust me.

Please mod this post if you need to guys. I just need yo say it.

yea like they said look at zzp's turbo kit, they have a few stages to choose from. They will have you running real fast with real good power. Please make sure you attack the tranny first tho, I barely finished my idea of a turbo before mine crapped the bed (its in the shop as we speak). Its a set back but once i get back on my feet I'm going for the zzp turbo setup ona rebuilt tranny.
Search thru the forums for the supercharger v. turbo thread you'll find it in there.

x2 dude I can't believe you just said that.

Why? It's a loan he has to pay back, with interest. It's not like it's free.

That financial aid won't last long enough to help pay for all the upkeep on a TT setup, plus all the things you will break as long as you have that car.

Hope you have an alternate means of funding, because that's a huge undertaking, both in manpower and in money.

It's money for people going to school that can't afford it on their own. You know, the kind of people with poor parents but big dreams?

That money is their for people that need it, NOT people who want it for personal gain.

You want extra money, get a loan. Financial aid isn't for toys, it's for school.

I never applied for financial aid. Why? Because I am fully capable of holding a job and making enough money to pay for myself. I left that money to people like my friends who come from poor families and are smart enough to do anything.

I'm sorry but if there is anything that sets me off it's people who take advantage of programs designed to help the needy. Like unemployment.

Teenagers with bigger dreams than knowledge and money. Many of teenagers have come on here (and CGP) and posted outrageous plans for their car when they have no money in their pockets, although I must say yours has got to be the most outrageous of them all.

What kind of mechanical knowledge do you have to install a twin turbo set up?

I would highly suggest that you take baby steps, young grasshopper.

I've used my financial aid to pay bills, do some modding, and things like that, but I worked to pay for other things. I now have to pay back that, and I wish some of the dumb things I spent it on, I didn't. I got 75% paid for for being a good high school student. Couple scholarships here and there, nothing much. So try try try not to use that money for dumb things, use it for living expenses, or put it into something that makes you interest, more than the interest it costs for the loan. I know a few years ago they did'nt have much to keep you from spending the money on anything, but now many schools make you pay first then they will reimburse you for what you spent on books, school, housing.

First mod CAI, second mod twin turbo... lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol

Why stop at 10's? Be the first to hit 6's in a Grand Prix :rolleyes:

Good god I didn't ask for you guys to give me crap about how i'm getting the money for this stuff. I have to pay it back so get over it. And i don't know anything about anything thats why i'm asking. If you are gonna flame or post stuff that doesn't help me then grow up. To those of you that are helping. Thanks. I just wanna know what all i need to do to put the TT setup on there.

just be glad you asked over here. and not clubxx.

they would put you in a corner crying.

we arent trying to be mean about it, but do some research before you ask about it.

I hope you go TT, but its just not realistic

Fair enough...

As you've probably already guessed, a TT setup would be rather difficult for someone who lacks the knowledge of even a single turbo set up. Not trying to flame, I'm just being honest.

A twin turbo set up would involve a smaller turbo to get you off the line, without the turbo lag, while the second bigger turbo kicks in right about the point that the smaller turbo starts to fall off. The smaller turbo's job is to get you to the power range of the second turbo without getting the turbo lag from the bigger second turbo. The first turbo will have minimal lag due to it's smaller size.

I must apologize for some of our comments (including mine), we really are a good group here and generally don't flame as other sites tend to.

Welcome to GPN and enjoy your stay.

Darn it Bobby, and I was about to put that kid on blast.

Kid, think hard and long, then make a wise decision.

Good luck and welcome aboard.

Main problem with a TT setup is where to stick the second turbo. The first can run near the TB right after the exhaust manifold. There isn't much room to put a second one beside it and run a Y exhaust dump either.

If you looking at taking a GP to get into the 10's its going to cost at least 18k. If I were you I would lay low a little bit and learn some informantion about your car and your engine, not just stepping in with your 10 HP gaining CAI and then saying you want a 900+ CHP 10 second GP. Some good websites are ClubGP.com to learn some stuff (don't post there unless you learn some stuff because you will get made fun of pretty bad).

ZZperformance.com can help you out with most of your turbo needs, but they will not have anything to do with TT's because no one gets them, they just do a decent single turbo setup.

List of stuff you are going to need to take a GP to the 10's (lol) :

L36 shortblock
diamond pistons
stage 4 heads
huge cam
BIG turbo
headers to an open exhaust
maybe a 200 shot of spray
also about a 5k tranny, if not more expensive.
and TONS of little stuff to get it to run right.

And there is no way this will be a daily driver.

Good luck man, welcome.

ya dont worry about this site flaming on anybody, i was surprised they ripped you that hard, this site aint like that at all, GOD i remember my first post, about all the ricey stuff i was gonna do to my car, OMG i cant believe i said any of those things they ripped me good but not too bad, i was surprised, def. go with a single turbo, and it's good that you gave yourself a high goal, now you'll be trying everything left and right to try and reach that instead of a 12 sec pass you'd get there with just a turbo and you'd be stuck running not really sure what you wanted to do,
go turbo, cam, headers, 3" exhaust, a BEEFED up tranny and expect lots of little things to break, i'd say give urself 5K to spend on fixing things that break with a turbo
just my .02

Alright guys thanks. I didn't realize it was so hard to TT these cars. Would it be wiser to get a turbo instead of a supercharger?

i think it would be better to turbo, way more potential, but an M90 is a hell of a good thing too

Bang for the buck, turbo all the way. I have spent about $1600 on my whole setup now and am hoping to run a decent 13 second pass.

For about twice that much (turbo kit costs $3K), you should be able to make 12's

If you are looking to get into the 11's and lower, you won't really be able to do it with a supercharger. Unless you go with a Centrifugal supercharger. TT-ing these cars is very hard. A single turbo setup will get you where you want to be. With the supporting mods obviously.

What mods would you suggest to go with it?

with what?

a turbo?

Read through this post it has some TT pics and [url=updateshttp://www.clubgp.com/newforum/tm.asp?m=3968188&p=2&mpage=3&tmode=1&smode=1&key=&language=][url=updateshttp://www.clubgp.com/newforum/tm.asp?m=3968188&p=2&mpage=3&tmode=1&smode=1&key=&language=][url=updateshttp://www.clubgp.com/newforum/tm.asp?m=3968188&p=2&mpage=3&tmode=1&smode=1&key=&language=]updateshttp://www.clubgp.com/newforum/tm.asp?m=3968188&p=2&mpage=3&tmode=1&smode=1&key=&language=[/url][/url][/url]

......best bet for a 10 second car..........sell the gp and buy 1

Alright guys thanks for everyone who helped. I'll see what happens and keep it posted. Once I get the turbo i'll post pics. If you have any other suggestions feel free to post up. The only problem is figuring what turbo to get because with the kit there are like 3 different ones.

Ok. So here is a small list of what is done to ZZPs 9 second drag car that has been COMPLETELY stripped down.

http://www.clubgp.com/cgi-asp/detail.asp?intownerid=11825

And here is a compilation of parts you will need to support that TT build. Mind you, I didn't include any gaskets, or a race tranny, and the actual turbo set-up will probably be 1-2k more than that set-up in the list. Also didn't grab suspension stuff, slicks and wheels, and I'm sure a bunch of other things.

EDIT: I forgot forged pistons, rods, and crank, along with a better balancer.

Oh, and the CAI you bought? You won't need it anymore, because the intake will be rplaced by the turbo charge pipes.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y130/venomman/page1.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y130/venomman/page2.jpg

I enjoy my car every time I get in and turn that beast over.

And I personally, am going to GLD for like the 7th time this season to hopefully break into the 13s.

I'd like the idea of a twin turbo'ed gp... Be fun as hell to drive if you could get it working correctly.

Gotta wonder about the drivablility of a TT GP though?

You have to do soooo much modding to be able to use that, I don't even know if you could drive that vehicle as a DD.

If you can get that Turbo build done right, I would say a lot of great tuning will keep you happy. Just don't cut corners and make sure you have that thing on and working properly before you go nuts.

Buddy in local club had an 04-05 gt and he turboed it. He didn't have it tuned right. I don't know the Turbo he had, but right before he sold it, he blew the trans, What he upgraded in the trans was: thicker chain, a ZZP 3k converter, hardened input shaft, and HD differential. Just some info for your turbo setup.

I'm ordering the kit friday. I might have to get a Daily Driver because my car is gonna be down for a little while. I'm not gonna risk driving it until I have made sure its not gonna break on me. I only have so much money and I need to do it right. I wish it was a little easier though.

One other thing. I was told you cant use a CAI with a turbocharger because there won't be any room. Is there any ways around this?

Don honestly i hope your haveing zzp install that turbo.
not to be a dicK but it really sounds like you dont know a monkey wrench from a tow strap

and if you do do the turbo and dont get a good tune on your car very quick your asking for big trouble.

take this from someone who is on their 3ed engine.....

I do all my own work( cept the tranny) and if u dont have a garage and tools and alot of know how your gonna be in for many problems.

good luck with your build and get some picts up quick!!

and go ahead and sell that cai its worthless with the turbo

You can USE a CAI with a turbo set-up, but you will need to fabricate a whole new intake set up.

Are you even sure how a turbo works?

Honestly, if you've got this kind of money, I think you should spend it on paintball stuff, it's obviously your favorite hobby.

With 10k and some land, you could easily set-up a small field for friends. Heck, wait long enough you could probably start your OWN field.

I'm not much of a field baller myself, more into the milsim stuff. My gun would make you laugh. Lemme see if I can find a pic...



That's a pic I made before I bought the parts. Looks very much like it, minus the scope and the bipod. I ordered the bi-pod in April and I never got it. Cost $40 too.

lol... a 98 custom. everyones first gun... i had one... i actually think i still have it, but i do the speedball thing now, more of a rush

Don, are you planning on installing this?

you guys are retarted lol. I'm a professional paintball player. I play for a team called chicago farside. They were on the espn paintball series last year but i didn't play for them then. I don't pay for anything though. I get everything paid for for me. And god no i'm not putting that crap in myself. I'm gonna drive up to michigan and have it installed. Family lives there so its a two fer.

Oh and if you put a scope on a paintball gun you are retarted. They don't shoot that far that you need a scope. But this isn't a paintball forum. Sorry I suck at life when it comes to cars. But thanks for the help.

Didn't I say I didn't put the scope on it?

Beside, you can't get you head far enough down to see through it because of the mask.

It's purely cosmetic, just like the mag and bi-pod.

Have you contacted ZZP yet? I'm curious to know a final price on this project. That includes all the supporting mods too.

BTW, how many miles on the car?

If this is what he wants for his car, back off and let him do it. If you can afford it, I say do it. I personally would wait until I was done with school to put that much money into any car I owned, but different strokes for different folks.

Seems almost like this thread should go to the "everything else" section now that they're talking paintball.

Yeah i contacted them. They said that i don't need any supporting mods that the engine would handle 500 horses easily. But i'm gonna put an entirely new exhaust on. Its probably gonna cost about 5000 total without installation. And my engine is brand new. My old one broke. This one has about 3 thousand miles on it.

the only time i played paint ball i was useing a 98 custom and i took out 3 kids with angels they were pissssssed

Um, an entirely new exhaust isn't an *option* for what you are doing. It's a requirement if you plan on bringing the car on the street.

The only TT GP runs open headers right out the side of the front of the car.

YOu are talking completely custom exhaust work from the heads ALL THE WAY back to the bumper.

And ZZP told you that you didn't need any supporting mods?

Yeah, your stock engine can handle 500hp. Your stock head gaskets won't. Your stock tranny WILL NOT.

Y'know though, whatever. Your money, borrowed or not.

When you blow a piston out your oil pan from running 30lbs with no supporting mods, I'll be MORE than happy to help you along with the rebuild.

Until then, have fun while it lasts.

And btw, you spelt retarded wrong. Twice.

Nah, just by a 3" catback (ZZP, Monza, Pacesetter) and funnel the exhaust into it, with say a 4">3" adapter.

ZZP is probably playing with you saying you need no supporting mods. However, an intercooler and new exhaust is part of the build (those are technically supporting), but you need a cam and LS1/N* TB w/ MAF, as well as a tranny beefing unless you plan on running really low boost numbers.

Honestly, stick with a single turbo or go nuts and do a top-swap with a whipple. That would be awesome.

RooK, they need to run the exhaust from the turbines as well as the wastegates back down and out of the engine compartment.

http://www.stattama.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=browse&id=44374&pageid=53

look at how it's set-up. They have a turbo per cylinder bank.

EDIT: I found a pic of what should be expected from ANY power adder without proper supporting mods and care.

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cf...&imageID=107723

I know what they have, but you can merge them. The problem is routing out of the engine bay. Once that is done, you can hook it up to a stock exhaust. Remember, two turbos require smaller individual exhaust pipes coming off each one, because they move less exhaust gas. Also, the turbos should be smaller as well. You could possibly run two, small 4-cyl turbos off a stock car like an Eclipse or SRT4. If you want it streetable that is.

As much as ZZP knows and those who just use one turbo, it seems he should play the lotto over tryign to build this thing. Like all the posts, it's no where near a bolt on application. And even if he spent $10,000 to have someone do it, he will need someone to monitor the setup day in and day out. And the upkeep might be rediculous.

yeah, yeah, do it. I like seeing pictures of things that go boom... like transmissions

Fix'd

werd

I said i'm not going twin. I just didn't realize what I would have been getting myself into. And like I said I'm gonna drive up to michigan and have it installed the right way. But it might take me a little while to get up there.

There we go, that's the attitude we are looking for.

You've got a lot of options for making more power out of the car.

-You can top-swap it into a faster GTP engine and have free reign over modding options.

-You can do the ZZP SSM90 kit, giving slightly better power than a top-swap at the cost of needing more specialized parts to continue modding.

-You can still turbo the car and you have MANY options of a build to do it with. However, making extra power from a turbo build isn't as easy as dropping a pulley.

If you are on a tight modding budget and have a good shop that will do the work/you can do the work in, a top-swap or SS M90 kit will work great at a lower cost. Top-swap with cam and springs will run you about $2000 + a few supporting mods.

You can still turbo the car too. A base turbo kit will get you into the 13's and should run you about $3000. You can also upgrade the turbo from the 50mm to something like a Turbonetics 62-1 and get a bit more power out of the build with some other mods.

I had ordered a turbo kit a while ago but ended up canceling it due to family troubles. However, in the ordering process, I learned a LOT about ZZPs turbo kits. I don't want to brag or anything but I'm probably the most familiar person on this board with ZZPs tubro kits.

$4100 will get you a 50mm turbo kit with an IC and BOV.

$2000 will get you an M90 and an XP cam with 105# springs

John, you didn't cancel the turbo for family troubles you got a speeding ticket and u got upset and you decided you didn't want to spend the money. i got a quick question too. Can u take a turbo off any car and use it, or does it have to be a very specific one?

lol... at the ticket

OK! First of all...

-ShadeSlaya is my 14 year old brother.
-He's wrong, I got the ticket WAY before my fiance` left me. I used the "too much power" and "too expensive" as excuses because I didn't want anybody but people I trusted to know what happened with her leaving.

And to answer your question, physically, I'm pretty sure turbo's fall into standard inlet/outlet sizes so they can bolt up in a generic fashion.

I'll bet you can use a TURBO off certian vehicles that share a similar turbo, however, you can't re-use the exhaust piping/charge tubing/oil lines.

That's why ZZP has different options as far as turbo's for their kits.

The piping is all standard and you can select different sized turbo's that fit with those pipes.

Well what will make the car quicker. Thats all I want is to make it as fast as possible

Fast as possible, or fast for a reasonable price?

Reasonable: Top swap, Gen V, Stage 3 IC, Cam, Headers, N* TB, Race Tranny. There ya go. Sub-12s and you have decent reliability.

I doubt you'd have much in the way of reliability with that setup either...

Fact of the matter is, you mod and you lose that factory driveability.

If you want fast as possible, you're gonna need a turbo cam, big turbo, heads, headers and all the little things like intake, 180* thermo, etc

I don't care. Price doesn't matter too much. I'm turboing it for sure though.

s/c USUALY quicker
turbo USUALY faster

Here you go a used, barely, ZZP Z7 T66 turbo kit for sale on clubgp!

That's a pretty good price for what you get.

He's right though, that's a power build and will tear your tranny to PIECES!

But figure $3100 for a high-end turbo build along with a custom IC and some supporting mods like 65# injectors, that's a good buy.

If you can afford to drop a little over $8000, I'd say buy his set-up and get yourself a race tranny from ZZP.

But if you are looking to keep your tranny for a while, you could easily just drop $3000 on ZZPs base turbo kit. That will bring you into the 13's easily and it's very streetable as well as far easier on the tranny.

That is a pretty good buy. But i'm just gonna get a new one and have zzp install it. The new tranny is going to cost too much but it will be worth it.

...something tells me the police officers will be knowing you by name after the turbo setup...

If they can catch me! lol

they will...

Ok I have a problem. I didn't know they made Centrifugal Superchargers for grand prix's. https://www.zzperformance.com/grand_prix/products1.php?id=244&catid=109 I know those are ridiculous. With the supporting mods they can add about 100 horses. I dunno what a turbocharger can possibly have over that.

A turbo doesn't cause parasitic drag. A supercharger, of any form, runs off a belt and leeches power from the engine. Power from a turbo is 100% free.

Well I realize that but wouldn't it be worth it for that much of a power increase? I'm just looking as my options and whatever is gonna be faster is what i want.

ZZP's base turbo kit for $2500 has the potential for 450hp. That's more than 100hp listed for the supercharger. I'd buy their base kit, upgrade fueling, get a boost controller, and buy a cheap intercooler. You'll still be out less than the more powerful S/C kits.

a large turbo, CSC, 100 hp-shot of the giggle gas, IC, race tranny, stage 4 lightening, headers, 3" dp to straight pipes all the way out (or headers to shorty dumps), ram air, lowering kit, roll cage, fire control system, and about 15,000 USD in NA supporting mods. That should get you a Grand Prix thats Gran Prix-Ready.

and a rwd swap with a manual tranny. just for fun

Why don't we just bolt a jet engine to the roof and call it done. :p

JATO!!!

OMG, here we go with the mythbusters JATO thread again!

Sorry, had ta.

I can see this thread de-railing to this...

Oh hey, THAT'S where I put that.

But how did you get a hold of it?

Yeah thats a gppd odea. A jet engine should give me everyghing I need for a ten second car.

Mike, save me, man...save me.

Why wont this thread DIE!?

it will never die... this is the new Grand Prix vs Grand Am/G6 thread

Now your going to bring that one up, someone will do a search and resurect it! Lol, I think we have gotten WAY off topic on this thread

maybe, but ya know...the GA vs GP thread was locked by the mods about a year ago. Mindless entertainment has gotta continue SOMEWHERE. I guess this the where and when...

Why would that thread be locked... it was a good thread. That stuff was epic!!

ask the mods. They're the ones who did it. Evil Mods. Evil. lol

quote:

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Originally posted by ifitwasnt4u:
OMG, here we go with the mythbusters JATO thread again!