So i finally got off the back head and the back right piston is chipped.....So it turns out its the last thing i wanted it to be im goin to the shop to see what they think i should do attempt to salvage it or swap with a motor from ED....If ne one has ne sugestions let me know

Put a new piston in and go. All depends on what the cylinder wall looks like. If it has heavy gouging it'll require complete tear down and machine work.

Bore and stroke!!

Stictly a judgement call,when you pull your motor have an experienced mechanic take a close look at cyl.walls and condition of the head ,you really need to think about what your future plans are for your car as this is a great time to plan your build, personally I do'nt recommend replacing just one piston in a higher mileage motor but it can be done with reasonably good results,your options are rebuild your present motor or buy a used motor from ed or if you want I could build a motor to any specs you want .Chico.

I was tryin to keep it cheap for him.

thanks guys....im bringin it to the machine shop in trhe next few days for them to pull out the block thats left and take it apart to c if i did alot of internal damage but i was curious about the bore n stroking how much would parts end up being and wat do i need?

How much does it cost about to bore and stroke what are the parts??

Too expensive. I think ZZP's base stroker kit is well over a grand. I would have your motor rebuilt but depending on your goals like chico said, now is the time if you're wanting to build a race motor, while you've got it out and apart.

Here's the link... http://www.zzperformance.com/grand_prix/products1.php?id=230&catid=109

It costs $1450.00

drummer boy what do i need for the top end if its less then that imma just build its time.............
heads = $?
Lower intake manifold = $?
supercharger = $?
L67 wireing harness = $100
MISC = $?

top end is like 750 from ed morad. with the misc. stuff i spent around $1000

I spent more like $1100, but that was for the cam and everything associated with that. New timing chain, front cover gasket, etc.

Morad can send you the whole kit, like corey said, for $700-800 depending probably on the mileage of the parts. Oh yeah, and you don't need the L67 wiring harness for the top end swap... if you're putting in a whole GTP motor, then yes you will need it.

does anyone know how to do it cheaper!!?

What the top end swap or the stroker kit?

I'm not sure what they do to the stock crank but you won't find one with the machining that's done to it at your local parts store. Plus they don't tell you what rods they are using.

yea i dont know about that kit.....my car is going to a machine shop to have the block pulled not just a mechanic.....so i was really considering having an NA car puttin 250 to the wheels while its there i can bore it and whatnot......just wonderin if those parts could be found cheaper

250whp? That's at or near the current N/A record holders. To do that, you'll at the least need p&p heads, big cam, and raised compression (if you don't have the stroker kit).

Yeah... good luck. I'm not expecting to have any more than 230-240 whp with the top end swap and cam. I think you'd be better off to just have a basic rebuild done and do the GTP top end.

now that i re-read the sight i see it wont be that much so its kinda pointless being so much more expensive.....im waiting on the damage report to decide....1.)topend 2.)rockers(i have the HPV its said to dyno better than cammed cars with rockers n insert) 3.) camshaft

Im probably going to rebuild it and throw some good rockers in there to work with the HPV insert so i dont lose gas milage with the cam but still have the same performance and dont have to worry about spring or timing chain......any one suggest a rocker pachage should i go with the 1.6, 1.9 ive read good things about the zzp 1.9

has ne one read about the 1.84......i am very eager to figure out a conclusion so when i hear the damage report i can buy or not.....if i do nice alluminum rochers should i get #105 springs and maybe even new aluminum valves too or do i need seal and locks new if i do the valves as well?
http://www.zzperformance.com/grand_prix/products.php?id=104

You could go with a VS cam. You can run it on a stock timing setup (no need for heavier springs) and get benefits of a cam and about 10hp over rockers throughout the rpm range.

If you change springs, you'll need new seals. Locks can be reused. If you go with any of the 1.8-1.95 ratio rockers you have to do springs to get the most out of them. That puts the similar wear on your timing chain/dampner as running a XP/S1X cam.

Look at it this way: the only consideration is gas milage.

• With a VS cam/rockers, you lose very little. With an XP cam, you will lose more, but it's still manageable (people are still getting high 20s on the highway with an XP).
• Timing chain/dampner wear will increase with rockers/XP due to the required spring weights.
• A cam install with the motor out is the same price as a rocker install w/ roller rockers.

It's something you're going to have to decide for yourself. I chose the cam route (should be here Fri btw). If I did go rockers, I'd run the roller rockers ($400), not counting the springs. You'll have to run 105s and change your chain/dampner too for insurance purposes. Something else to consider is the 1.95:1 ratio offered.

BTW, valves are a waste of time unless you're having the heads fully ported and larger valves installed. If you're going that far, why not install a cam?

thanx rook thats prob the best explanation i could have wished for.....the only reason i was gunna do the rockers is because of that intake manifold insert i have allready which is said to dyno better then a cam with rockers.....Im looking to get the most power out of my car because the engine is out now without stroker or top end swap so if i did cam whats the most power for cheao the XP like u did?

XP is the largest cam you can run without having the lifter guides machined. Plus it gives a nice lumpy idle. Everything to do the the cam install was $660 shipped. This included the cam, 105s, modded retainers, valve seals, install kit with cam/crank bolts and valve covers, and a new timing chain. Rated hp is 40-55 range.

The S1X cam sold by Intense is very similar, though just a hair smaller (you can compare the specs). Either would be great for ultimate power on stock heads.

Honestly, if you want to go with reliability, just get a VS cam. You'll still get benefits higher than the rockers (for cheaper) without the timing component wear associated with the larger cams/rockers. You'll also get your mileage.

If I'd went VS cam, the whole setup listed above would have cost me about $200 less, because you don't need the springs, retainers, or valve seals. Highly suggested imo. If my GP was going to be a dedicated DD, it would have gotten the smaller cam.

thanx again rook ur an awsome help

Stock springs, keepers, retainers, lifters and pushrods are fine. Springs, retainers, and pushrods are recommended for shift points over 6200rpm...........should i be worried about this i have the zzp pcm n she shifts pretty high

I believe the ZZP default shift point is 6100 so you can run the stock components.

thanx everyone for your help VS here i come.....unless the damage is bad wish me luck ill prob be finding out Wednesday when im in california

(in the zzp website for the options in the PCM it states [tables adjusted for VS cam $30] should i be worried even if the its not above the 6200 shift point labled on the cam description)

I would go cam too. I was debating this same thing and every time I drive my car now, I'm glad that I went with a cam instead of rockers. Since the motor's already out, I would recommend like Rook said, either the XP cam or the S1X cam from Intense.

If you do decide to go rockers, get the ZZP ER rockers. They are the best ratio for N/A applications and they will maintain the best drivability along with gas mileage/etc. Fuel economy isn't so much about your mods, it's how you drive and how well tuned your car is. Right now I just avg'd 16 mpg for my last tank with the top end swap/cam, and that's untuned, running rich, idling rough, and beating on it pretty good. With a solid tune and feathering the pedal I'm sure I can get 20ish in town like I used to.

You don't need a reprogrammed PCM, but the one with VS tables will take into account the changes the cam makes and be better tuned to the engine. It's whatever you want to do. Perhaps ZZP will reflash it for a smaller fee.

very tru if so i might just have them program it for the xp because i wan the most power wile its apart maybe throw out that extra $200

So your going to do a top swap? you say your going with a VS cam great you do know this is for SC applications? The vs cam would not be a good choice n/a if your staying n/a I would suggest a GT2 cam and since you will probably need head resurfacing get themm to shave 30k off them this will boost your comp.ratio to 10.2-1 ,to make real power n/a the secret is in head and cam combination which will cost $$ so in a lot of cases it woulld be just as cheap to do the top swap ,PM me for a little head help .Chico.

im just looking for a cam that would give me a good amount of force liek the XP....im not doing the swap any more dont have the $

I forgot you're staying N/A. The XP is a boost cam, so you'll need to stick with the GT series. The GT3 is like the XP cam and has a tad more lift on the intake. It requires all the additions as well. The GT1 or GT2 can be run with stock heads and valve train. I'd got Chico's recommendation of a GT2. I'd also mill the heads as he stated. It's at a machine shop anyway, so why not?

Ok so the GT2 is looking like the best choice right now when u say i should ask them to shave off 30k wat exaclty does that mean and do i then need to change the valve train to new(springs rockers...etc)

30k is 30 thousandths of an inch... theyll shave off 30 thousandths of an inch... hardly any at all, but youll definately notice the difference...

GT2 can run on stock valve components just like a VS cam, so long as you stay under 6200rpm (to prevent valve float).

With the heads, you're asking them remove .030" of material from the bottom head. This shrinks the combustion chamber and increases compression.

Plus by shaving the head it'll re true them so you'll get a good head gasket seal.

sounds like a plan ill keep u guys posted with the exact damage on wed and the new gameplan after that thanks again to everyone

ok so the damage report is here......there is no major engine damage below the pistons, obviously the piston needs to be replaced and the valves need to be refinished because of the chips knockin into it.......the head is going to be resurfaced and the the walls are going to be honed......im going to throw a cam in while the engine is pulled but darn this is adding up ill let everyone know how it turns out ill be getting it back early next week when i get back from spring break in california this week......Wish me luck everyone ill keep everyone posted if ur still interested!!

Keep us updated, sounds like good news though. Also, the more pics the better.

the shops doing it now and im in cali so pics are going to be hard to get

Im getting so antsy.....the shop said it would be done early this week havn't heard an update yet im probably going to call today or tomarrow just to see i cant wait!!!.......even though i couldnt do the top end swap man u guys are all kiilling me wat is it 3 guys doing it or have it done right now fewww u guys are awsome but a torture too!!

does a cold air intake make that much of a diff compared to my open K&N setup.....i know cold air is much better but havnt had the time to rig a box yet?

You can leave the open filter for now and build a box around it to allow only cold air in at a later time.

If your not going to the track and just DDing open cone is fine.

for the track a closed air box n pulled hedlight are preferable right?

Yep.

So you're going GT2 cam, milled heads, and otherwise leaving it alone? If that's correct, i'm sure it'll put a smile on your face!

Also, pull the rubber seal from the rear of the engine compartment where the hood meets. It'll cause a lot more airflow and cool the engine bay/intake temps.

my machine guy said u wont feel the gt2 cam too much so he said do i want to do a bigger one n i said heck yesss.......not to sure wats goin in i havnt been around......but valves are being resurfaced along with honed walls.....big cam and springs to help.........does that rubber seal let too much water in?......cant wait to show a video clip or exhaust clip soon im so exited for that smile u mentioned drummerboy!!

Your machine guy is wrong you will feel a GT2 cam and if you go larger you will absolutly need a higher stall convertor or your car will be a complete dog on the bottom end .Chico.

i hope not....he is a very experienced guy and has done many grand prix.....i dont think its that much bigger then the gt2 maybe its the gt3??

ok well i called him cauz chico got me worried he said its a comp cam 801.....does any one know ne thing about the performance

Comp Cams 801 Cam - 200°/206°
Intake Lift .496
Exhaust Lift .480
112 Lobe Separation

ZZP GT2 cam - 216°/216° at .050"
Intake Lift .317" (.507" lift w/ 1.6 rockers)
Exhaust Lift .317" (.507" lift w/ 1.6 rockers)
111 Lobe Separation

Looks to me like the GT2 is quite a bit more aggressive than the 801 cam...

comp cam is more unless the gt2 is with rockers and i wasnt getting both so i guess the comp cam was the better way to go neway

Isn't it?

No, that's the GT2 specs period. They say with 1.6 rockers to let you know they're using the stock valvetrain for specs.

The GT2 is bigger.

The GT2 has quite a bit more duration.

darn thats upsetting ...........why does it say a smaller lift n then bigger with 1.6 rockers (i didnt know 1.6 was stock)

1.6 rockers are assumed. You can't run higher ratio rockers and a cam because the valves will open up too far and could damage the pistons/valve seats, guides, valves etc.

yea that would be bad.....ive done enough damage.....i hope im still happy with the comp cam 801

yeah it's too late now so hopefully you'll like it!

tell me bout it.....cant wait to at least move up a notch n smoke even more ricers n some mustangs!!!

You'll still notice the 801. Just smack your engine builder next time he tries to suggest a superior product.

will do thanx rook haha!.....he said he didnt want to make it too much of a competition race car which i guess is reasonable because i didnt want to go to crazy with her and have to rebuild again....i called to check the status and shes done!!!.....hopefully i can get a ride from a friend to go get it tomarrow and drive it back with a huge smile on my face

NICE! get us some pics and possibly sound clips asap!

Will do drummerboy!!....and everyone else

WOW gotta love camshafts.....shes back and runnin great drove back on the highway today and it was a blast also took some runs with my friends SRT-4 and im feeling pretty good about how its performin.....thanks everyone for your help ill post pics and some video soon hopefully

Oh and they didnt put my intake manifold spacer back in because where the end are a thinner peice of polyurithane it warped ......does ne one think i can get my money back from zzp or will they give me a hastle

Email Zoomer and ask. They should fix you up. If not, whine like a little girl on ClubGP. Heh.

why does zoomer run zzp or something?

Pretty much, he's the owner I believe.

ok thanks do u have his email?

customerservice@zzperformance.com

^Everytime I've emailed it, he responded. You can always address him personally in the email.

should you wait a while to break all your new stuff in? especially the cam

Ive been driving it like i always do.....normal most of the time but never afraid to floor it n she wat shes got...i was never told about a break in possess and with ne thing i own ive been told break it in like your gunna drive it.....quads, snowmobiles,....etc

From what I remember reading, our cams don't really require a break-in like a normal cam. We have roller lifters, so it isn't as big of a deal.

good to know

the cam doesn't need to be broken in; however the pistons and rings need to be broken in so that they seat properly. my machine shop told me for the first 100 miles go easy, then change the oil, and after that drive it like you stole it.

i wasnt told that but when i got it back i drove around kinda ruff.....but only for a short amount of time....then drove back to school on the highway for 150 miles so i hope that broke in the piston rings because i drove it like i stole it yesterday against a saab 9000 CSE boosting about 22 psi.....he didnt catch me till 80 mph hes makin about 300HP