When I do end up doing the top swap, will the blower sit low enough that it won't hit the top of my hood. I have the WS6 Hood from andy's autosport and i'm wondering if any GTP's have this hood? I'm guessing the blower sits not much higher then the actual plastic intake on the GT, but that's my guess, would like to know if I'm even applicable to do a top swap with my current hood.

2nd Question is what is the experience level needed to be able to install a top swap?

Thanks.

No clue about the hood but it should fit. People have clearance issues with the Stage 2 I/C setups on aftermarket hoods.

Experience level:

A good set of tools
Torque wrench!
This site for torque specs:
http://www.fullthrottlev6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2466

You should have some experience. I mean its not crazy hard but its not easy either. The hardest part will be the balancer.

Top swap no IC no issues. Top swap and full size could have clearance issues.

Is the balancer hard because its hard to get off? I have an air gun if so (90 psi max).. but I have another question as well.

I'm sure this has been asked but while im posting about this I would like to know, is there a write up on the top swap conversion and how-to? I think I will def need instructions for this.

SEARCH! There have been multiple people on here doing top swaps in the past years. I can think of at least 4 right now and every single one of them had a thread where they posted a ton of useful information.

Oh god he is trying to just go at it with an air gun... This is not gunna end well lmao.

You wont have any rubbing issues. I had my full size IC from ZZP with a stock hood and didnt have any clearance issues. Youll be fine.

You might as well pay a local guy on MNCGP unless youre in Iowa and have good tools.

You want to know the torque ft/lbs for the impact. I probably wouldnt hit anything in the engine bay with a impact gun, an air ratchet probably, if youre lazy

EDIT: What happened to you not modding your car anymore?

ya good luck getting the balancer off with just the air gun...lol

Ben, dont do the top swap unless you have the proper experience, because as stated before its not hard but it sure as hell isnt easy. Also, what do you plan on doing along with the top swap? Headers, rockers? If you dont plan on doing any of that then just do the ssm90, BUT you will need to buy zzps fuel logs to use for your heads. I did rockers and headers and I am sitting comfortably with a 3.8 no knock, but if i wanted to I can go down to a 3.6 but i would just need to tweak the tune a little bit.

I forgot all about the tune, all the locals quit... so good luck with that.

That shouldn't matter. If he's serious about modding the car he should be getting a tuner and learning how to use it anyways.

Mod bug bites, and quite hard sometimes.

As for the top-swap, sounds like going SSM90 would be easier, so I suppose why not?

As for the SSM90 though ZZP is out of their modded fuel rails so I'm checking club GP forums for some... anyone know where I could get fuel rails for SSM90?

I think randall has some upside down ones lol

On the ZZP Website it says the fuel logs for the ssm90 kit are out of stock, is this for certain or is that the ssm90 fuel logs for i/c applications and they have normal ssm90 fuel logs?

Ben, they have the modded fuel rails for the "cleaner" look and also for ssic applications. The billet fuel logs are the fuel rails specifically used for the ssm90 setup

Wrong, Billet's arent specifically used for "ssm90" apps, i had Billet fuel logs on my last GTP.

Well obviously Jeremy but when it comes to the ssm90 your only option is the billet fuel logs. I'm not that stupid...

Ben heres a good looking top swap for ya

http://www.clubgp.com/newforum/tm.asp?m=5035532&p=1&tmode=1&smode=1

Thanks jorgs for posting that, i got in contact with the seller, he hasn't sold nething yet. I told him I would take it off his hands. I will have extra cash to buy PCM, and gaskets, and injectors if i have to..

Also maybe 4drGT (Andrew) can help me install it or at least get me headed in correct direction with it. I have a backup car and I realize my car may be in the garage for a few weeks. I have proper tools in Iowa, but what about the crank bolt, what is needed to get that off and what is needed to get the balancer out?

This tool





Also I would deff get some stock L67 injectors cheap or spring for 42's if you know you will get mod happy down the line.

Can I bypass the balancer all together and go with an Modular pulley?

That tool is to pull it. To break it you need a diff tool to keep from turning the motor. Don't be an idiot and put a bar between your flex plate... buy the tool its safer. It will take two people the first time breaking that bolt.

ok here ya go, if your planning on doing a simple swap just because you want the little extra power, you can do the top swap ... just bypass the extra tensoner and the additional time and effort to install the balancer, if you do just the simple swap use the ssm90 style pulley thats ofset so you can use one single belt. search some threads, even the older threads that i started about the same issues,


SSM90 kit would be the simple fast thing, all you need is the install kit, ssm90 LIM, supercharger modded for the ssm90 and the ssm90 fuel logs. I have said this before, with this kit you only have to do LIM up, otherwise with the traditional top swap you need to do heads up that means you have to pull your old heads, also if you get a set of heads in "top swap" that you buy used i would highly sugest having the heads go to a machine shop to make sure they are flat and there are no cracks or anything which costs about 150 or so, otherwise you can end up with putting a set of junk heads on. and have to pull them off again later.

if you do heads then you need new rocker bolts and head bolts and gaskets, which with the ss kit you wouldnt have to mess with any of it.

if you are doing a simple swap and just want a sc DO THE SSM90 if you plan on modding and going with like a cam/intercooler/larger injecters ect ect go with the top swap if you look it it in the end they are the about the same cost


also earlyer when you were asking me about pulley sizes, ok so your gt has higher compression than a gtp, it is due to the rods and pistons, so no mater what you do top swap or ssm90 you will have the higher compression so your pulley sizing will be diffrent, with the ssm90 kit you use a 4.2 which would roughly = a 3.8 in order to drop to a 4.0 which would roughly= a 3.4 you need to up grade inj and use gtp injectors. you wont be able to go smaller without doing more mods ask tim

The top swap I can get for 350+ shipping, would u take that over an SSM90 kit? Or should I spend roughly 1000-2000 and get the SSM90? I have a lot of time I can go with my car in garage to be worked on, I have a backup vehicle. So if i bypass the balancer I think I could do it. The heads would be the hardest part for me.

I looked @ ZZPerformance but I only see the modular pulleys for the SS Kit, would that be the offset pulley or am I missing an option or item?

If you look @ the link that jorgs posted it comes with head bolts, and some gaskets, along with injectors and fuel rails. Can someone look at what this guy is selling and tell me what all its missing. Thanks.

http://www.clubgp.com/newforum/tm.asp?m=...Check=867040896

ben, buy the guys kit off clubgp! Honestly, dont waste your time with the SSM90 because you WILL want to get it modded further. If i were to do it all over again, I would go staright for the 42# inj and get the fuel pump rewire kit as well(just to be on the safe side). Also pick up a set of LSx 90# springs.

If you want to know what it is missing ask him for everything he has included and look on the FAQ's section on here to see what you all need and compare the two lists.

To Andrew and Ben: I am running a 3.8 pulley with TOG headers with a 3" catted zzp TOG style DP, and ZZP 1.9 Modified Rockers. I can easily go down to a 3.6 but I would need to tweak the tune a little bit.

i didnt say anything about your pulley size, i was just telling ben, because he wanted to drop right to a 3.8/3.4

but ben you can use the ss style pulley so that means yous only use one belt unlike gtp's that use 2 belts so you dont have to worry about the balancer

Ben I hope you arent taking a bite more than you can chew, but wow thats a better deal than I thought, I didnt see that it came with all the vitals for the heads.

You might as well buy headers and throw a cam in that motor and put it in all at once.... Tim what did you do in your whole top swap? Headers and rockers?

I'm buying the kit off the guy on clubgp. I will collect everything and hopefully by my thanksgiving break I can install it all. I will ask the guy about the heads and their condition. I understand they will need to be cleaned thoroughly.

I will not get a cam or headers, the top swap will be hard enough for me. I'm just considered about the condition of the parts, because its off a rusting high mileage car. I found the Top Swap instructions and have looked through them, it sounds tough but I have a backup vehicle so there's no real problem there. I will have all the time in the world to complete it so I wont have to rush and can do things correctly.

Btw thanks Andrew for your help on this, it has been much appreciated.

What makes you think you can't mod the SS M-90 kit ,just swap to a GTP pulley system and your good ,I have a combo SS kit and TS and am running a cam ,ported heads with a 3.25" pulley all on a SS M-90 kit,that said I would go with the TS if you are able to do the work yourself the only reason I originally went with the ZZP kit is because I already had ST3 heads,but do'nt make blanket statements that you are limited in modding the ZZP kit the only hold back is in IC size and that can be worked out with a custom IC.Chico(pops)

bens main reason why he didnt want the ss kit is because of the overall cost of the kit, Or i hope he doesnt think "you cant mod it" but i think its mainly for the cost of the parts he doesnt want to use for that reason

ok, i know i said that and honestly i dont know why i said that either..

Ben, just do headers, it will be MUCH easier to install the headers while everything is off the motor.

Your telling Ben to do headers mean while you have more than enough supporting mods to run a 3.4 and your still on a 3.8....

Your saying headers will be easier to install while everything is off the motor? How exactly is removing the UIM, LIM, TB and intake going to make installing headers easier? What are you gunna do take the heads off put the headers on the heads when they are off the block...

Ben do what you budget allows for. Make sure you have all the parts that you NEED for the TS first before you go off and buying additional mods. If you do a mixed setup you have plenty of space to keep going like Chico said.

obviously you need the heads on the block dude. I am not that stupid nor is he to think that, that is what i meant!

Youre right i do have plenty of supporting mods, but I do not want to run anything lower than the 3.8 right now, and if your going to rag on me for that then thats messed up...I am waiting to do more mods in the spring and will hopefully be down to a 3.2. So before you go ragging on me why dont you get the whole story first.

Your telling me to chill out lol I'm perfectly relaxed dude idk why you are getting so offended haha w.e.

I wasn't ragging I was being sarcastic well except for the first part that was a snide remark :p but I guess some people take things way to seriously.

You most deff can drop to a 3.4 with a good tune and I was checking your build progress but ill stop with that since I don't know the whole story...

No that I think about it... unless the heads are off, installing headers with the whole top end off would still be a PITA since the valve cover is what got my stuck for a little bit

The valve covers sound like an easy part of the top swap, how was it hard for you?

I do not plan on any additional mods since I have supporting mods for the top swap minus the 180 tstat that ill worry about in summer time. As for now I'm getting the main parts, then for $50 dollars at a local machine shop I'm getting the heads resurfaced so they will be good to go.

From there I will then start purchasing gaskets,spray-a-gasket,supercharger oil, Top swap PCM, and other various items. Once I have it all I will begin the top swap and space it out if I have to (want correct info for everything I do). I will need torque specs for bolts, etc.. If anyone knows where to find this (link) would be nice:)

I looked at the Top Swap writeup here (read it a few times): http://www.grandprixforums.net/f17/top-swap-info-faqs-also-lots-7763.html

There was a few torque specs listed there but not all were posted, so I will need all for everything I will be touching and removing on the top swap.

Like I've said before I have a backup vehicle so I can wait awhile if I need stuff and take it slow and space things out. I have no rush on this and will be probably receiving the main parts of top swap next week if shipping goes smoothly. The weekend after that I will be able to get the heads resurfaced and start worrying about gaskets and such then. Install will probably be in December or start of next year.

I meant valve covers by fitting my headers behind there, I scraped them all up

So I need someone who knows about top swaps and everything I need, I've asked and annoyed Andrew way to much and finally have come up with a list of everything I will be getting. Feel free to pitch in if something is wrong with what im getting or if something is missing and I need it.

I've done some research and figured out how I want to do this, I just need the parts and make sure im not missing anything.

SC with zzp MPS hub
LIM with temp sensorand egr block
Thermostat housing
both heads with head bolts,pushrods,rockers and pedestals
L67 Fuel rail
Coil pack bracket
SC tensioner setup
All idler pulleys
TB thats polished inside
Valve covers(one might need to be replaced)

ZZP Modular Pulley SS Kit 4.2
ZZP L67 Top Swap Adapter Harness
ZZP Top Swap Kit (including ZZP 1.0 PCM)
Eaton replacement coupler
Resurface Heads at local machine shop
SC Oil (GM)
Coolant elbows
Rocker bolts
060950 - SS M90 for 99+ Serpentine Belt ZZP
GTP Injectors
copper spray-a-gasket
Autolites 104 Spark Plugs
Oil/Coolant/Oil Filter

For a TS you will need both valve covers and you can't use the SS 4.2 pulley with a dual belt setup ,a TB that's polished inside??? there are lots of complete TS's for sale over at CGP and not to be mean please get someone experienced to help you out .Chico(pops)

I'm going to run a single belt setup, as for the TB polished I have no idea. The harmonic balancer and other few items for dual belt are just extra added goodies. I plan on running SSM90 belt and pulley and bypassing the balancer. I will get an extra valve cover if necessary. I'm buying this top swap at club GP. I plan on getting experienced people such as Andrew 4drgt to help me out as well.

Ok if you pllan on running the single belt you need a stand off pulley that comes with the SS M-90 install kit,it just so happens I have this available since I switched to a dual belt setup ,if you need it PM me.Chico(pops)

As far as money wise I realize top swap is more expensive then it seems even when you get all the main parts for cheap. I will not be attempting this as a fear of me messing up, plus I rely on my car heavily. Thanks though for everyone who helped me in planning it out, I learned a lot more about my car by just reading up on the top swap and understand more now.