This may seem like a silly question. But what exacty is a top end swap? I have hurd it around..got no clue.

its where you swap out the heads and intake from your L36 for heads/intake/blower from an L67...converting your GT to a pressurized engine...you need less pulley reduction due to the L36 pistons higher comp ratio.

can it be done with a non-supercharged L36?

...?

I don't think you understand.

You take your naturally aspirated L36 engine, take off EVERYTHING from the block the block up, including the heads, low intake and upper intake.

Then you take those same kinds of parts from a SUPERCHARGED L67, and put them on your L36.

You do this ebecause it allows you to use the L67's M90 supercharger on your non-supercharged L36.

Get it?

Yeah i think so. How much does somethin like that run...w/o the supercharger that is...

Pointless without the S/C.

The only reason for swapping the heads is because the fuel injector placement on the L36 heads will not allow the LIM (Lower Intake Manifold)to bolt onto the heads. That LIM is required to run the S/C which also doubles as the upper manifold.

why would u do the top end swap and not put on a S/C? That kind of defeats the purpose of doing the top end swap

Ok. No, no, no.

I understand that you don't know what a top-swap is but now I think you also aren't listening.

When you top-swap, you convert your L36 into an L67.

The only reason TO DO THE TOP-SWAP, is to put the supercharger on the car.

Why wouldn't you want to put the supercharger on the car? And I don't care what reason you have, the next question is, why are you doing a top-swap if you DON'T WANT the supercharger?

I don't want to come of TOO offensive but...

Anyway, to answer your question on cost, it's like $800 in hard parts from Ed Morad, and thne $300 in gaskets. Then you also should have supporting mods like larger downpipe, colder t-stat, the usual stuff.


EDIT: Unless you already HAVE an M90 sitting around, in which case, you could knock I think... $200 of the $800 for hard parts.

But honestly, I'm going to tell you what I tell anybody who asks if they can supercharge, turbo, etc. there car;

If you are asking if you can do it, you can't. When you have learned enough to know that you can do it, you are able to.

^^lonezergling^^ well said, i think last line is now your OFFICAL QUOTE!!!

x2 nice!!!

Blacktop Vinyl,

If you have more questions just ask. Don't be intimidated by these guys. I think they are being a bit hard on you.

Not really. Still has the L36 bottom end and tranny gearing.

But it does turn your L36 into a supercharged L36.

It could be that he meant how much do the engine parts for the top-swap cost. The M90 can be found online, but maybe he wanted to know how much the REST of it costs. *shrugs* Just a thought.

x2

Zerg- chill out. You were in the exact same position not long ago. Seriously, the guy has made 3 posts and youre treating him crappy. Give him a while to take it all in

if you dont want to deal with some of this, then you can PM me.

well if i came off hard please forgive me. i know when i first got her i dident know jack and i asked alot of stupid questions....ones that are a lot more stupid than this one.....i just thought what zerg said about
"If you are asking if you can do it, you can't. When you have learned enough to know that you can do it, you are able to."
made perfect sence.

x2 for me on the zerg quote. hope u didnt take anything i said to heart

because im still learning

I appologize for coming off harsh. It's just that T-bats post, the first one in the topic I might add, was about as dead-on as a laser-guided bomb. I honestly couldn't have described a top-swap to a newb better myself.

Here, I even found something that might help;


That's a crate of "hard parts" shipped to my dad's shop straight from Ed Morad. You buy the parts from him, that what it looks like.

I've got a pic of my ZZP parts list too but I'll save that until somebody asks to see it. Spent over a grand on gaskets and cam stuff for the swap.

I've even got links to the top-swap and cam guides if you wanted to just read-up.

Because honestly, that's how I learned what I know today. Reading EVERYTHING. I will sit on the computer for hours on end in the middle of the night and just research crap.

zerg, i ilke how u added that quote to ur sig.

"If..." -me haha

Also, if you do this and get a desire to hear the S/C whine before install by turning it really fast with an impact on the nose vent bolt... don't. They break. :p

*sigh* I guess I HAVE to post that pic up now don't I?




Oops! My bad. How on Earth did THOSE get here >.> <.<

In responce to UM FAN
I dont mind theyre hard on me...thay just proboly dont understand even when they explain stuff to me...im listening with open ears...im just not getting it. Im just very inexperienced with the 3800. IM here to learn...

Maybe I'll drive down to Chicago sometime.

I've got to get that 2.5" dp to 98greenGT and I'm sure we could get enough guys to set up a small "meet" somewhere. I think we need to plana "Mod day" out here in the WI-IL area.

I know it's difficult to learn this stuff. We all had to learn it at some point.

Some of the best things you can do are just stare at your engine and try to identify the pieces. It helps if you have a friend who knows cars more than you so he can yell at you for making an innocent mistake. (brings back memories of myself...)

Also, what helps is to go on a site like zzperformance or wbodystore and just look at what they sell.

When you see what people make high-end replacements for, you can understand a little more why it is done that way.

p.s. Do you work a night shift or something or do you just end up staying up late and not realizing it like me? lol

I am going to GOUGE my EYES out!!!!

wheres the huge exhaust tip on the first pic to make it the offical ricer version

Grand Prix Rice; Version 2. Now with more wing!

its on zergs car!

It keeps that "sleeper" look right......sike, haha

Pfft, my car is the sleepiest on the whole site.

I dunno. Non-matching body kit, rolling on steelies, I dare say... that sounds a little ricey to me...

*shock* *gasp* *shudder*

Just kidding though Rook. Once the Pink Panther gets some new paint, it's going to be the sleepiest to ever grace this site.

i dont want a sleeper.. i like to look gooooood

You can do both. You can't be a hard-core sleeper like Rook, but you can look nice and still be a sleeper. Look at the 40th Annv cars.

But I'm not biased. :rolleyes:

I'm not at all meaning to step on your thread or anything, i just feel this questions would be beneficial to both of us.. Does somebody have a list or care to make one of everything you need to do the swap. I have the mechanical ability, I just don't want to run into something unexpected where i have to order something for my daily driver unexpectedly. So basically i would like to have everything I need on my carport before i tear her down

There is a GTP motor with a Nock in the motor with a good SC a couple towns away for $200 so i'm thinking of heading that way so any info would be appreciated!

Thanks, Letha


Edit: Rook are you pretty close to jamestown?? I'm about 40 minutes from there.. Maybe if i decide to do this, I can lure you down to help out with some beer and gas money lol

Look at the FAQ thread.

i like my hood...and that means its not a sleeper

Herc i must be overlooking it or something because i searched before i asked and only come up with very vague, awnsers and was unable to find the FAQ..

Its at the top of the 1997-2003 page. Third thread: 97-03 FAQ Here Letha

if you really think about it anything that is not supposed to be under the hood of our cars makes all of us a sleeper... could you imaginge grandma drive a gtp... lol that would suck if the other was in a honda.. haha about the top swap it seems rather easy except for the cam ... im stuck trying to remove the water pump and power steering ...

Parts for the top swap:

M90 Supercharger []*
Boost bypass valve []*
L67 smooth idler pulley []*
L67 grooved idler pulley (on coil pack) []*
L67 belt tensioner []*
L67 throttle body []*
33# injectors []*
L67 crank pulley []*
L67 MAP sensor []*
L67 heads []*
L67 LIM []*
L67 Valve Covers []*
L67 fuel rail []*
Head Bolts []
Rocker Bolts []
S/C Bolts []*
LIM Bolts []
L36 to L67 wiring harness adapter kit []
Vac lines (I used 7/64" rubber hose) []
Coil pack bracket from a 97-98 GT/GTP []*
S/C belt []
2 changes worth of oil/oil filters []
2 jugs of coolant []
GM S/C Oil (need 6 oz.) []
Reprogrammed PCM []

The "*" denotes all hard parts that can be bought from Ed Morad. Just ask for hard parts for a top-swap and he knows what you need.

Gaskets:

Head Gaskets []
S/C gasket []
TB gasket []
LIM gasket []
LIM o-rings []
Valve Cover gaskets []
Fuel rail o-rings []
Gray RTV gasket maker []
Teflon tape []
Copper gasket spray []

If doing cam at the same time you will need:
*Depending on the cam, you may need 105# valve springs and mod’d retainers*

New Timing chain []
Timing chain dampener []
Front cover gasket []
Engine assembly lube []
XP Camshaft []
105# Springs []
Mod'd Retainers []
Valve Seals []
Tools required for cam/valvespring install:

Impact gun and air compressor []
Torque wrench (ft/lbs AND ft/in) []
1-1/8 impact socket for cam bolt []
Impact wrench and sockets []
Crank pulley puller (requires special bolts) []
Valve spring compressor []

Maybe we could update the FAQ with this list? I compiled that when I did my swap and there wasn't a single thing I had to run to the store for, save things I broke like the fuel line elbows.

poor UMfan's ride has taken so much photoshop abuse in this thread I feel compelled to offer up a more flattering version...not a sleeper, but not very ricey either...

Grand Prix Ferarri FTW!

Looks kinda like a NSX!

Not too hot.
Brakes look neat tho!
I wish they had made the Gp a convertable.
I know theres one out there. A pace car i believe.
Wish i had one...