I was reading recently in Car and Driver about the new Pontiac Grand Prix. I couldn't help but notice how they talked down about the 3.8 liter push rod engine. The magazine stated that the motor was vulnerable.. Do you think this is true and also do you think GM will ever put a new motor in the 04GP?
I have never had any problem in my 99GP but I was just wondering what someone else thinks?

You have to take what these magazines write with a grain of salt. If you ask any auto technician or any former GM owner, they will tell you that the 3800 engine is one of the best around, and gets better almost every year. Yes, the day will come probably soon when GM will have to retire the 3.8 due to increasing emissions and fuel economy standards. But, it's pretty remarkable that as old as the design is, it still meets todays standards for emissions. In fact, the GP is meeting the requirements of being a LEV (low emission vehicle). Trust me, any car with a 3800 engine does not need to be worried about until close to 200,000 miles. The magazines just like everything that is new and flashy, but notice that they never rate reliability or serviceability? This is where the 3.8 really shines. PS- it was rated one of the Ten Best Engines of all time by Ward's Auto World recently. I dropped my Car and Driver subscription years ago!!

Alot of the car magazines that I read (and I subscribe to a bunch ;-)) are admittedly Euro or JDM fan-bois.

So unless you want the USDM car makers to start emulating those buzzy / low torque motors, better get used to the crappy reviews in car magazines.

You may have noticed that JDM car manufacturers are quietly / slowly bumping up torque numbers in the latest production cars, even VW now mentions it in their new TV commercial.

I think the JDMers are beginning to realize that people actually live in cities and towns where downlow performance is more important than Autobahn / Autostrada capabilities :-)

What's even funnier, is that the JDM fans used to say crap like, "Your engine is so big at 3.8 litres blah blah blah"

I think Mitsu has a new 3.9L V6 in its Galant replacement. The L67 is great! When shopping for a new car, I looked at tons of cars that had more hp than the GTP, but it did not feel faster, even though on paper, it was. Gotta love that torque! Looked at the GTO, but the local dealer wants $10,000 over MSRP.

The 3.8 has become to be almost the perfect engine, from a technician's view. It's easy to service, they're reliable, smooth running, responsive and torquey. They also are fairly good on gas, especially given the "old" design of the engine. BTW, they're selling the GTO for STICKER price at the dealer where I bought my GT. I could hardly believe it!

Oh, I forgot. Yes, most of the magazines that I USED to subscribe to are very foreign biased. My father is in quality control, so I get some of these nerdy quality reports once and awhile, which I actually find interesting. The truth is, the past few years have shown that the domestics, mainly GM, have scored HIGHER reliability numbers on certain models than most of the imports; and much higher than the current German "high end" vehicles. Most people buy cars based on emotion and status, and not on real facts. If it was based on facts, BMW wouldn't sell any cars here!

Are you sure they didnt say "VENERABLE" not Vulnerable? Venerable means commanding respect because its been around for a long time and pretty reliable.

Even if they were talking down about the GP, vulnerable seems hardly appropriate for anything they might be saying.
Just a thought

Yes, I think why2kmax is right. "Venerable" is one of the routine words that the magazines do often use in their reviews, and would make more sense than meaning vulnerable. The magazines are a little off, but I don't think so far off as to downplay the 3.8. It's pretty much known by most that this is a bulletproof engine, even by the one sided magazines. No one seems to argue that.

u r so right adam.. d 3.8 is a magnificent motor. correct me if im wrong but this is d same 3.8 (block and heads) tjat is also in d grand natl regal, nwe no know what a screamin vehicle that is .

keep it hammered down cause it is spring!!!

interesting post from another forum

The 04 GP has 2 strikes against it...
1. The PCM is by default 33% TR whereas the 03 was only 6%
2. ETC.... you notice this when you turn off TC and hammer the gas and hold it... The car falls flat on its face after about 4 secs of spinning....

Both contribute MAJORLY to the slower than prev gen. GP's.

Once the DHP is released for the 04 (sometime maybe in April) you will see what the 04 GP can really do. The programmers that have been working on the PCM code quite literally see 30-40hp (depending on supporting
mods) just "stuck" in the computer which we are unable to tap into right now. We have heard they did this for future model upgrades so they can just tune the PCM every model year and keep adding 10hp or something similar... At least until they come out with another platform. :p

I would recommend holding off passing judgment on the 04 power until we get the DHP in there... Then we will truly see what power lurks under the hood.

well i look at it this way, the 3.8 has been in the g.m. family for quite some time. now my gtp has 63k on the odo but reliability has been outstanding, people in this forum have more miles or kilometers for are neighbors to the north and south and ive have not heard any bad news about their 3.8`s

hi-tech is great for some motors but leave my 3.8 the way it is because ill take it and modify the hell out of it and can still work on it without having to sweat too much because of its long history of being a tried,true and basic power train so at least i have some what of an idea whats going on inside my girls heart and soul...

easier to work on so i can put the hammer down
now that its spring, unless you live in or near brigeport,ct

10k over MSRP for a GTO?!?!?!?!?! WT heck. OUr local pontiac dealer has 7 thats right S E V E N of those things, and i thought they where going to be limited. they have more gto's right now than gtp's and the gto loaded is only like 1500 more than a gtp i would take the gto

Easy there..killer!..Two different cars for two different purposes!!..REMEMBER THAT!! :p True..the new GTO is pretty awesome and yeah Id probably trade my GTP hands down if I were offered a trade for a GTO, but you can also haul around more friends in style than with the GTO!! So down on I-75 b/c its spring but watch for the Georgia Bubble-Gum Machines..

3800 is the best developed V6 motor that GM has to offer. Bottom line, hands down, I think every one will agree with that one.