and by the way, Paint the side view mirrors on the G6 and start making them tilt in on all the pontiacs.

OK. Thanks for helping. CompG it is.

Next question:
Have I gone off the deep end? I want to get the navigation system. Some say yes. My co-workers (software engineers) say no.

More info on Nav system. Yahoo Autos has pricing on the 2005's now. $2300 for the nav system. I've been to the dealer and know that the nav system also includes the Monsoon speakers. I wonder if that explains the large mark-up from the Vibe's system. I thought they were the same unit, running same application. That's what the G-Force had years ago.

My guess is you will be paying for the "newness" of the Nav system in a GP. I am not big on them but I do not travel much out of the realm of

--where I know where I am either.--

A Nav system wuold be great for unknown areas. They are still a bit buggy but even when you miss a turn they tell you to turn around....better than reading a map IMHO.

And with that option that would put your Comp-G around $35K right?

Here is my opinion (now that I rambled on for 5 minutes) If you can afford it -- GET IT!

Better to have it and not need it -- Than to need it and not have it

Now $2300 for the Nav system -- is it the amplified Monsoon system or the regular system? In the Vibe with the Nav system you lose the high watt amp.

I don't travel much either, but do find myself having to go to local places I'm not sure about getting to. Plus, I can get from point A to points B and C. I have trouble getting from B to C without going back to A.

I did some quick adding using the Yahoo prices.
Base GTP: 26,435
CompG: 1,395
Climate: 275
Leather: 795
Navigation: 2,390
TOTAL: 31,290

I'm not sure on the Monsoon. What I do know is this. The navigation system box on the dealer's order system lists the RPO code for the Monsoon. Just like the premium audio group lists the RPO for the radio + the RPO code for the Monsoon. Both are the same code.

Another update. Was poking around the internet and Intellichoice has user-buildable 05's. It works exactly like the dealer system. Selecting some options automatically enables others. One I didn't notice is that the automatic A/C is only available with the CompG, Comfort and Info, or Comfort and InfoTech Packages. Same price, but I forgot to tack on $660 for destination.

Looks to be a perfect replacement to me.
TA had no trunk
TA had 2 doors
TA ran low 13s stock, GTO runs what 13.4?
TA handled ok but it wasnt stellar, I doubt better than a GTO
TA had same list of options a GTO does
TA got same mileage as GTO
TA had a HORRIBLE interior compared to the GTO
TA had no useable back seat, GTO does

looks good to me

Well put, why2kmax! I was afraid to type almost the same thing, but now that you opened the door...

The GTO isn't my favorite new performance car, but it's still worlds better than any F-body ever was.

The interiors shouldn't even be compared to one another. The F bodys' were always creeky, rattly and cheap looking. One of the things I like about the GTO is the simple yet well made interior, the use of quality materials, and superior tightness and fit. Not exactly F-body features. I can also guaranty that the GTO is a better driving, more balanced, tighter, more predictable, better braking, better handling, more efficient vehicle than the old F-body ever hoped to be. The F bodies were just like the Mustangs; old technology and quality standards wrapped in a pretty shell.

There, I feel better...

Oh, and the reason GM finally put the F body out of its misery is the same reason any other line is dropped - It didn't sell.

And who's complaining about trunkspace and only 2 doors on a performance car? Why would GM release a 4 door performance sedan with a trunk, and call it a GTO; I think they already build one similar to that, can't remember the name of it though....

Would someone be justified to complain about Corvettes, Mustangs, and Vipers because they didn't build them as sedans, and don't have enough trunkspace? The GTO is obviously intended for a different market; it's a different car than a GP, and is intended for different use.

Performance wise the TA beat the GTO. Real world overall quality of the ride the GTO has the Seat on the hill. It is the S***. While it may be a hair slower it will still haul ass has a better interior more usuable trunk IRS and hmmmmm it doesnt look as fast but will still haul and it does get good gas mileage, leard to drive a six speed and you can get close to teh GTP from teh manufacture rating.

There is a good article in hemmings muscle car mag (august 2004 issue) that adresses all the things people bitch about the GTO for. It gives explanations as to why the car came out like it did. One of them says Pontiac originally designed hood scoops for the car but EPA/govt said they would have to do a standard 24 month aerodynamic/mpg/epa study of the car with that option, OR use the grand prix stats and give it NO hood scoops. GM set the intro date for 18 months so they axed the scoops. They said their testing showed NO Performance improvement with the scoops anyway. BUT they will be out for 05.

Sigh ... THe Vette has more trunk capacity than th GTO ... I am not saying it need to be able to send me on a 2 week Family vacation but hell You could not get 2 golf bags and cloths in that trunk.

As for styling... ok everyone complained to get rid of the cladding but heck do not make it look like a big cavalier or Lumina.

Every rating I have seen for the GTO says 13.8 for the 1/4 mile -- The T/A was rated 13.3 DUDE THAT IS .5 Seconds -- that is not just a little bit. Its skid pad is only .02g better than the Comp-G. The Trans Am was about .9

Good thing the GTO was not a replacement for the TA -- I think if it is/was it fell short.

I'll take my Comp G over a GTO anyday.

Do not get me wrong.. I would take a GTO over most vehicles out today - just a bit baffled why the lack of trying.. but as why2kmax said they only slated 18months for the job so it would make sense that they just used an existing setup...the DownUnder vehicle.

I suspect the nect couple gens will be pretty cool.

Well first of all, this is GM we're talking about; of course they're going to use an already existing setup, they always do.

If a T/A were to come out, say, right now, it would get laughed and criticized right off the market. It takes much more than a big engine to make a real performance car. For acceleration times, I would easily trade a half second (which you probably can't even notice by driving) for better braking, ergonomics, fit and finish, and mere lack of bulk and a Tupperware body. Not to mention more efficient, and a little more class as well. The GTO is much more of an adult's car; a Trans AM can usually be afforded after delivering enough pizzas.

Not that I think that the GTO styling couldn't have been a little more bold, but keep in mind that generally it's a handsome car, with smooth lines and good quality aspects. I agree; the car will get better the next couple years, I'm sure. I just hope the price doesn't start to creep up too much at the same time...