Yet again GM has managed to take a great car and screw it up. Have you guys seen the article on the Monaro in the July Motor Trend?

Its no quicker then our GTPs are stock. The LS1 in them only has 302hp, and its weighs 3600lbs. And they raised the price a huge amount. In Aus these sell for the equivilent of $24000. GTO pricing is expected to start in the mid-30's. Why can't they do something right for a change?

Sure they give us the car we wanted, but its bloated, neutered, and overpriced, just like the ThunderBird. All show, little go at a price that is way too much for what you get .

I've heard it's going to start under $30K.

We'll just have to wait and see. Have a little faith in Bob Lutz before you pass judgement!

I believe they'll put a 350hp engine inside. Maybe just about the same hp as a base Vette. Keep in mind that GM's top line sport car is Vette not GTO.

The GTO will get the same "300hp" LS1 the Camaro and Firebird got. Amazing how those cars can put down 300hp to the wheels when they only have 300hp at the crank, huh?

Plus I'm pretty sure the 1/4 mile and 0-60 times they got where estimates based on the info GM gave them on weight and HP.

I think that GM is afraid to put too much HP into anything other than the corvette. Say you spent $30k for a GTO and your friend spent $55k+ for a vette. Heaven forbid you go smokin' by a corvette since you only paid half as much! My biggest problem with the Z28 and Trans Am was the solid rear axle. Now with independent rear suspension, the GTO should be one hell of a machine with power and handling. Only time will tell.

Just my .02

Craig

Darkness You really should think about what your going to say being an idiot and all... the vette is the overall best car but GTO can smoke it too the 1/4 mile, it can even beat a Lambourghini Diablo by .4seconds, or at least the good ole' 1969 "The Judge" could

Its no great secret that the Monaros with 302HP are stones. They've been out on the market for well over 3 years now. 14.5 is the norm for those cars. The GTS with the Callaway prepped engine at around 400+ is running 13.6's to 13.8's all day long.

Expect a 350HP GTO to be in the low 14's - High 13's on a good day. Hey guys, thats a pretty fair starting point compared to the mid to high 14's that we have with the GTP's?

Let's compare apples to apples...Its not the same car (I don't see a 4-door version like we most have) and it has the possibilities of exploiting ALL the vast hardware that exists for the LS1, that we, still do not have for our cars today.

As for the folks that think its going to smoke a vette... 2 points to consider.

1) Get real, if you think that GM is stupid enough to shoot itself into the foot by selling a car thats CHEAPER and FASTER than a vette, I have this bridge that I want you to buy, REAL cheap... its in Brooklyn.

2) Talking about a car thats not "officially" out for sale and speculating about it's capabilities is like Microsoft talking about how great this new product is going to be. Vaporware is vaporware, it means nothing. Until it comes out, GM has the option of doing anything they want to it... up to and including putting in a 600hp 502CuIn instead of the LS1, or just replacing it with the same N/A engine thats in our GP's today.

Personally, I'll be keeping my GTP for a long time. There's something about having a 4-door grocery getter smoke a 300HP Porsche carrera on the open road, blast almost any Mustang at the strip and tear most imports a new hiney... all while getting over 30MPG on the highway and still haveing room for 5 passengers and a week's worth of groceries all at the same time. I don't think the GTO is any better than an M3 because it doesn't fit with what I want in a car. In that area, to each their own, of course.

Jerry Homolka
'99 Black GTP Sedan
13.97@99.976mph
"The Mistress is back!"
http://syner-g.org

Lets think about this for a minute.

Why would GM put the LS1 engine into a Grandprix body? I think that they may have lost sight of what they did when they cut the Trans Am / Camaro line. True GM does not want a GrandPrix to run faster times than the Vette. The problem GM is now facing is the SVT Mustangs are now within fractions of seconds at beating the Vette. If someone is looking for speed why would they go out and spend 55K ~ 60K on a Vette when I an get a Mustang for 30K that is just about as fast as the Vette.
So what is GM to do?
Hey lets revive the GTO nameplate (which Ponitac is know for) to try and cool down Fords plans at beating the Vette. True the times on the 2004 GTO are less than desirable, but with the LS1 there is plenty of parts and room for growth. This can be done quickly with minimal amount of retooling at the plants.

The styling seems to be sending mixed signals. It wants to be aggressive, yet they did not want to chase away the "pratical car" buyers. So they compromise. What they are forgetting is that "pratical buyers" do not go out and buy gas guzzling V-8's.

So in the end, could the 2004 GP be a quick fix to keep the Mustang off the heels of the Vette?

Food for thought.

Just got all the most recent C&D, R&T etc and they list the 03 Cobra as 13.3 and the Standard Vette at 13.4. But it has also been witnessed that a factory stock Cobra has run times around 12.9 if not a tad better. Too many reporting to keep up. But MM&FF had one at a local track and with only swapping out the pulley for an OEM Lightning one they ran either 12.4 or 12.6.

The Z06 runs 12.2 OEM. Yeah you can mod either but the best bang for the buck goes to Ford. They won this round. Lets see what GM does. God I hope the GTO delivers. I also read that over the next few years the Vette will be moving to the Gev IV LSI from the Gen III LS1 and be at over 400 HP with the Z06 taking a hiatus from about 04-06 and then coming back even stronger.

But that still doesnt do anything for the 25-35K market area. GM needs to definately play catch up. To be honest I have only ever owned one Ford in my life and that was 18 years ago. The rest have been GMs. But that new Cobra is REAL tempting. I am holding out to see what the GTO produces and hoping that its some good numbers.

Jerry you must remember the Grand National right???

We can only hope something similar happens with the GTO but I doubt they'll make the same "mistake" twice.