I'm going to look at an 02 GTP this afternoon. It's got 59k on the clock, dealer is asking upper 12k's for it. No warranty, sold as-is.

What do I need to be looking at? I know I'll need to make sure the tranny isn't possessed and all that, but this is my first time seriously looking at a car and getting someone that knows what they're doing to go with me is proving to be difficult.

if ur paying 12k for it, say i want to warrenty for free, n if they say no then say okay ill go check (whatever) dealership instead.

I'll let the "Big Dog's" give the good advice, however.. I do have an open account at carfax if you want me to run one for you.

I found it extremely helpful buying mine, as it showed the previous owner took it into the dealership diligently every 5000km's for a tune up etc..

If you want one, fire me the vin!

Cheers!

Only thing extra I'd check with The GTP over any other car is the condition of the S/C belt and listen to the snout on the blower. If it has a rattling sound while under idle and disapears under accelleration that is a sign of a worn coupler. It's an easy fix but it could be grounds for knocking the price down the cost of having them replacing it. Which would probably be about 500.

four years old with 59k for 12k. You should be able to pick one up closer to 10k. Mine was stickered for 14k and I walked away with mine for 10.6k

Going through what I have on my Grand Prix, the previous owners bought it used with 70k miles (I think) for around that price. But def try talking them down on price if at all possible. Try some hard breaking on a empty flat road and see if it pulls any way, listen to see if they squeak. Good check for the ABS system as well. Look at the rotars and see if they appear thin/worn. Check coolant level, and other fluids. Remember to check the basics out, we forgot for my car, but were lucky and it worked fine. That is, windows, wipers, washer, lights, door locks, turn signals (right front side light didn't work, had to get new bulb and harness) and anything else you can think off.

Thanks guys, this is very, very helpful, especially since I'm pretty much a n00b at superchargers.

I figured they were asking too much, but I didn't know exactly what to hit on to make them go "oh, sh-t, she's figured us out!"

And Canadian, you are my hero .. I am going on a car lot rampage this weekend, and I'll probably come back with a handful of VINs so I'll take you up on that offer.

Check the color of the brake fluid (clear=good, black=bad), and take off the radiator cap and see what it looks like underneath. Also, check to make sure the lower intake gaskets aren't the plastic ones, they should be the new metal ones. IIRC, there was a recall for it, but i'm not 100% sure. I'd have them change it over to the metal ones regardless because of all the failures of the plastic ones. Around 100k miles is when the plastic ones go, and take a bearing with them when they leak coolant into your oil.

Check the trans fluid, note the color and smell. If it's funky in ANY way (low, burnt smell, dark, etc), walk away. Especially since they're not offering any kind of warranty. Price is def. too high, unless it has EVERY option available for a GTP.

EDIT: Oh yeah, make sure you get some WOT shifts in on the test drive, both upshifts and downshifts. Any slipping = walk away.

Post up pics when you get it.

also, check every place that may have a potential rock chip. (bottom of doors, behind tires, etc) if it has any kind of off color paint other than what looks to be primer, then it's probably been wrecked and repaired at one time or another and check for the spacing between doors, fenders, hood, trunk, etc to see if they all have even spacing, and flow extremely smoothly, that's another sign of accident. look under the car to see if the cradle is all scraped up. if it is, it might mean that the car was driven by someone who doesn't care, and it may end up with oil pan leaks, etc in the near future. not saying it will, but definately something to look at!!

also, if dealer is selling it "as-is/no warranty" doesn't that kinda make you wonder why? most dealers will offer a warranty regardless cause it's more money in their pockets

Hi 1BAD97, you mentioned metal lower intake gaskets; where can I buy these? Thanks in advance!

look at the bolts around the tranny and oil pans to see if they are wet/leaking. but with 59k it should be pretty healthy. latter down the road when its too late you will find out how it was taken care of. but thats the risk of used cars.

"Hi 1BAD97, you mentioned metal lower intake gaskets; where can I buy these? Thanks in advance!"

The dealerships should be carrying them now, as they replaced the plastic ones. ZZP also stocks the metal ones.

it seems kind of odd the dealership does not offer a warranty on it. So be careful on that.

Arcxnus, that actually seems like a good price, Atleast when you look here in Kansas, everything that is supercharged, for arround that mileage the dealerships here are wanting anywhere from $15,000-$13,000 for cars w/ a warranty. I know that I am going to sell mine in a few months, and I was going to put $12,500 on mine, and I won't be offering any warranty.... Maybe the prices are higer here though, b/c I was even offered $11,000 to trade it in b/c of the demand for the '02 GTP's w/ 2 doors. Just my $.02 worth.

Listen, here is the thing you need to know about buying a car in these simple steps. A deal is only as good as you think it is. Do you want to pay 12000, 11000 or are you looking for a payment? At the dealership I work most of the cars used or new are only marked up at most $2500. If you want a warranty ask for one, a full bumper to bumper will most likly run $1800...even this is negotiable. People really make buying a car harder than it has to be, before you go shopping look at you budget and decide what is the majic number....the number you will buy today, and look for that number. If you finance generally the formula is 20 dollars for every 1000 finaced. As far a the car ask to take it to you family mechanic, if they say you cant, walk...I have personally driven to about 20 family mechanics, and had people that didnt even ask to take it, but feel better when we offer the chance to them. Ask up front if they have carfax or offer a vehicle history report...we do at the dealership I work. Also ask people about the reputation of the dealership you are looking ask for a salesman that might have assisted a friend or relative. I sell cars I am not the devil, people dont see it that way however it its true....I guess what I am saying is find a salesman that puts fun into it. Oh and good luck have fun...if you have any questions about a deal that is worked up post the numbers you get on the forum and I will check them here.

Arcxnus, I wish you the best of luck in your search; you've already been given a lot of great info. I was one of those family mechanics who had checked out a lot of cars for our customers, and in my experience, "as is" usually means "needs work". Having the car checked out by someone you trust can save you a lot of headaches down the road.
A couple of "as is" stories: A friend shows up at a cruise night to show off the car she just bought. I had her pop the hood, and then had to inform her that the heater core had been bypassed! ($500-$600 job)
A '94 Grand Prix gets towed to our shop with $1500 worth of front end damage, because a lower ball joint let go while the guy was driving down the highway. The dealer who sold him the car the week before assured him it was "ready for the road".

Alright, this is how it turned out ..

They let me drive it home without committing! The dealership is in Ft Worth and I live in Waco, which is a good 100mi away. They're letting me borrow it until Tuesday so I can get the title signed over to me and make sure I want to buy it, and they said if I needed a little more time, that they could work it out.

Honestly, this car is simply amazing. No dents, no dings, and somehow, only one or two minor chips in the paint. Considering where it was, it's no mental leap to know that it was probably mostly a city car. Fully loaded. I mean, everything. Moonroof, Bose, heated seat, leather, you name it.

Everything drives great, too, all the fluids checked out and she made it back to Waco in heavy traffic and on less than a half tank of gas.

HOWEVER, there is one thing that I noticed, that has been mentioned here recently. It's holding 3k RPM at 70, which I believe Chico mentioned was a cheap vaccuum hose problem? The tranny isn't shifting hard or making any noises, so .. do you think this could be the problem? Other than that, this GTP is just amazing, for having 59k on it.

I worked out a warranty on it, too. 2 years, 24k miles, should be honored at any dealership in the country.

I wouldn't buy the car until that is fixed and it's confirmed that's all it is, is just the vaccum hose or mod. You don't want to buy it and find out you've actually lost OD.

The vaccuum line suggestion that Chico mentioned was for 97s I believe. If you are noticing something different in an 02 GTP, then I think it's something different.

The car doesn't have a 4th gear, simple as that. The 4th gear clutch shaft is likely stripped out, common problem as they're made of a soft metal. ZZP sells hardened ones to correct it, but of course the trans has to be disassembled to correct the problem.

Try this. While cruising at 70-75 or so, let off the gas and see if the RPM's go back down to idle range. If they do, you don't have a 4th gear for sure. RPM's should go down to ~1k when you let off the throttle at hwy speeds.

EDIT: The only vac controlled trans in a GP is the 4T60E in the '97 GT's.

Pics?

I thought of something else, try shifting from the 3 position to D. See if it acts any different...I remember my dad saying something like that since he had driven other cars that didn't always go quite into the selected gear.

It is a beautiful car i saw it today when she came over to a friends house to show off the car. It's a 4 door

This could be an faulty O2 sensor or temp sensor that is causing it to not go into closed loop mode.....it may not be a stripped fourth gear.

Pass...

Not trying to disrespect anyone, but I the only time I hear the term "closed loop" it's referring to the fuel system, not the tranny.
Can you please elaborate on the "closed loop mode"?

ehh, the only thing is that stuffs got to be a certain temperature for TC lockup to happen all the way. O2/closed loop wouldn't have anything to do with it.
Arc, that could be a pretty serious problem with 4th, definetly get that taken care of first!

Thanks guys! You show once again that this forum is an incredibly valuable commodity. I'll let you know how this all turns out.

And as demanded ..

one thing to check, if nobody else has mentioned it already. drive out to an open road that is flat and straight (you should be able to find at least one around Waco) stop then slowly press the gas pedal down and take your hands off the wheel, making sure it drives straight, if not, tell them you want an alignment done first. same basic thing with the brakes, drive along to around 45 mph, then hit the brakes (don't slam) and barely take your hands off the wheel, if it pulls one way or the other, make them check the brakes also. might save you some money after you buy it.


BTW: try to get them to tint the windows for you, also

HEY!!!...

There are so many advantages to having a 4 door I won't even get into it. You'll see in no time Arc!

Nice looking ride!

Is that factory interior?

I thought they only went 2 tone on special editions?
I don't recall the side bolsters on the front seats being so noticable either. The more I look at it, the more I believe the seats have been reupholstered. Not that that's a bad thing.... Is it just the picture? Or are the 2 front seats different as far as seams?

Did you have someone do a carfax on it? I recall somebody offering that up.

Canadian offered that up, Crimpton, and I just got it from him. That was quick!

It's not showing anything remotely negative, but that doesn't necessarily mean nothing bad has happened. As far as the two-tone thing goes, I was thinking something like the 40th is more true two-tone than this .. I could be mistaken though, but I do know that anything could have been mixed and matched at the time this vehicle was sold new. I have SE wheels on my GT, so I'm pretty sure there wasn't much that wasn't out of question if you ordered one to how you wanted it?

As you can see, I have absolutely no idea. If it has been reupholstered, I have to say they did a damn good job and it is in immaculate shape. According to what I see on this Carfax, it's been in the DFW area from the get-go, so my guess as to this being a city-driven car would be probably spot-on .. Might explain a little as to why 4th gear is most likely stripped out, since that city driving is probably pretty tough on something that you guys say is rather fragile to begin with.

Does any of this seem off? I'm learning as I go along .. First owner put 19k on it in almost exactly two years, which seems normal. Looks like the second owner drove it alot, since they only had it for a year and a half and it's at 59k now, so they would have put on like 2 times what the first owner did.

Are you gonna get it? Why do you want to get rid of your gt? I have seen multiple grand prixs with the mostly black interior but have light gray seats like that. Theres a 2002 on e-bay like that right now.

The GT is falling apart .. It would be as much of an expense as just buying a new car at this point. I'm pretty sure the trans was well on it's way out, something was up with the engine, as it has been idling rough and acting like it wants to stall out and die for quite a few months now. It needs new springs and I'm fairly certain it needs some suspension work as there's something up with that. The rest is minor annoyance, like broken cupholders, carpet wear, door trim coming off, et cetera. It's been in two fairly nasty wrecks, though mechanical damage in both was very minimal and the body repair was almost perfect.

No one could ever tell how old it was or that it had been banged up pretty good. It seems pretty logical to me that getting something newer at 250ish per month plus insurance and a full warranty that even covers renting a car while mine would be in the shop is a pretty okay choice. I have no credit yet so my mother is cosigning my loan, and since my best friend's mother is the loan officer and VP of the bank I am going to, she's gotten me a pretty good rate of 7%.

I can have the 4th gear shaft replaced under warranty at any dealership, or am I mistaken in believing that things that were already wrong with it can be replaced like that? Everything else in this car is more than I could have asked for. Every other GTP I looked at had comparable miles with the same options or less for nearly 2k more asking price.

Am I crazy?

No, you will love your 2002 4 door GTP. You will join the exclusive ranks of Canadian GTP and myself.

Welcome!

Atleast get a different color than red.

everybody knows that silver is the best color.

I wouldn't even think of buying the car until OD is fixed, since it could turn out to be a bigger problem then "just" the OD gear. I'd take the car back to the dealer, say it won't go into OD and you suspect the gear is stripped. They should fix it, hopefully without wanting more money.

Yeah, that's right! Take that, you 2door weirdos! Our club is betterer.

I got the loan papers for my half signed just now. The rate ended up being 7.5, which is still better than what the dealership came up with. Now we're waiting on my dad to come home from Colorado tomorrow morning and check the car out and give a thumbs up or down. If the answer's yes, my mom signs her half and I start understanding what it's like to pay for your own vehicle.

I'll have the verdict tomorrow evening. Hoping for the best, preparing for the worst.

Edit: It does go into OD, it just won't shift into 4th at highway speed. I haven't really taken it much above 70mph, so I don't know if it shifts eventually. Warranty ftw?

How many miles are on the gt?

The car should be able to be in OD/4th gear by 50mph. If it's not into that gear by 70mph with the torque convert locked, then there's something very wrong. Your RPMs should be right around 2000-2100 when your going 70mph.

GT has almost 128k on it.

*feels stupid* Sorry, JJ, I read that wrong. I took it literally, like you meant it wouldn't shift into the D position. .. I'm really tired ..

It's ok We've all got days like that. I'm just afraid that your going to spend all that money on the car, then after you buy it the transmission will show other signs of failing, slipping, through-the-windshield hard shifts, etc. Make sure that the warenty covers the transmission and it isn't just for more minor things engine related, like alternator.

Oh, did I not mention the warranty coverage? .. I can't remember and I don't feel like reading, lol.

It covers everything. I mean EVERYTHING. Anything that can break, it covers it for 2 years or 24k miles. It even covers the cost of a rental car and the cost of towing. I got pretty lucky with it too, since the next big bump up in cost on the coverage would have come at 60k miles on the odometer, and this GTP had 59k.

That is good Then even if the car leaves you stuck somewhere, you're still covered. Nice warenty

Alright, just got a chance to take it out on an empty straight road. First off, the good part. GTPs.are.awesome. As soon as I find better words to say it, I will.

Now for the other thing. I did what someone suggested, got it up to highway speed and let off, RPMs dropped to 1k. Noticed something else while messing around. From 35 to 40, the RPMs rise over 2k then around 40mph, it drops back down to 2k or a little less, then when it hits 50mph, it jumps back up. I assume this is OD/4th gear freaking out? None of the other gears are giving a problem.

*clueless* Thank you all for your wisdom.

"I did what someone suggested, got it up to highway speed and let off, RPMs dropped to 1k."

That would've been me. You don't have a 4th gear. Well you do, but the clutch shaft that engages it is stripped out. If you don't do much hwy driving, you can leave it the way it is indefinately. If you do drive above 50 mph often, you'll either need a new trans, or a rebuild. If you've got a warranty, get the trans replaced now.

EDIT: Makes sense since you said the car was mostly driven in the city, the previous owner would never have known about this issue unless going 70 MPH or more.

I would get that tranny replaced now. Do not but it without getting that fixed, as it could come back to bite you in the @$$ later... IMO.

Good news - Dealership says they'll fix it without tacking more money onto what I'll pay for it.

That's good Sounds like everything else is fine though, so you've found a pretty nice car there. Kind of strange what the transmission is doing there, but at least the car is driveable.

Yeah, I agree wholeheartedly. It's very strange .. Of course, I live out in the boondocks, where the GT was constantly driven in highway speeds, and not much in the way of city so I've never seen something like this. Live and learn.

I'll keep you guys updated on the goings-on.

I can't express enough gratitude .. You guys are quick, and you know your stuff. Thank you all so much!

"Good news - Dealership says they'll fix it without tacking more money onto what I'll pay for it"

That's good, but be very leary of the work a "dealership" does. Double and triple check everything when you pick the car up, don't even drive it away without checking the trans fluid to make sure it's full, and full of the correct fluid (you'd be surprised). Also, find out if the plan to replace the trans with a rebuild, rebuild the current trans, or (least likely) install a NEW trans.

Hi Arcxnus, I'm glad everything seems to be working out well for you, and that you did in fact find the "as is" demon(I knew there had to be at least one in there somewhere! ). Having said that, X2 what 1BAD97 said, and please keep us updated; I love happy endings!

Arc. is this work being done under warrenty? Ask for an inhouse service report on the work done so if the same problem comes around in the future you have something to fall back on. By the way nice purchase and good luck .Chico.

Did she buy it yet?

The dealership took a look at it today to confirm that it really wasn't shifting into fourth, and what they found was what JJ was saying.

They took it over to a Pontiac dealership to let them do the work, and the possibility of getting an entirely new transmission was mentioned before I even had a chance to ask about it, so that's good. Plus, they're getting the Pontiac place to check the car for anything and everything else that could be a problem. AND! If anything needs replacing, including the trans, there's a good chance whatever it is that gets worked on will get another warranty to go along with what I'll already be getting.

I was really worried about them rushing through fixing it just to get it out and sold. I haven't let my bank draft the loan yet, and I won't until it's completely fixed. Trans work is pretty labor-intensive, and this dealership doesn't seem to be worried about taking the extra time to make sure the things that are wrong now are fixed appropriately, and that anything else that could be wrong is checked.

I keep hearing you guys talk about dealership horror stories, but these guys are being awesome about this. They call me when they say they will, they get things done when they say they will, and they let me know everything that's going on. And I haven't even bought it yet!

On top of all this, I'm borrowing their cars, lol. I'm driving an 06 G6 they had on the lot while the GTP is getting checked. When the work they do checks out and I make sure everything is up to snuff, this GTP is as good as MINE. MWAHAHAHA~

What's the first thing on the list?

Darn you .. Don't tempt me!

..... Okay, that u-bend has to go. I'll have to plan out saving for muffs and tips, so give me a bit and it will be done in one fell swoop. I'm workin' on the typical 20-year-old's budget here, so give me a bit. :p

Also just got another call with even better news -- The Pontiac dealership is just going to go ahead and drop a new tranny in the GTP! This will all be very strange for me; I got the GT when it had 91k on it, so a relatively new GP is something foreign to me .. and doing the same mods over again on something more powerful, well.

I'm feelin' the bug.

Heck YES!!

So are you trading in the GT, or are you gonna keep it, or sell it?

Trading her in .. She had so many little problems, the clearcoat was beginning to peel, etc. I would have had a time selling it privately, and trading it in cut a good part out of the GTP's buying price anyway.

I don't have the time or the budget to try selling it privately.

How much did you get for it? Why did they give you another car to drive and not just drive the GT?

3" D/P, 3.4" pulley, PCM...

Now you're talking!

I'm sorry I couldn't be of more help! But I'm glad you've found what you wanted. ^_^ <3

"3" D/P, 3.4" pulley, PCM..."

Spare piston/short-block, spark plug(s), cherry picker, TQ wrenches...

cam, turbo, slicks

Heck, screw it... 2.75" pulley

any news on the GTP?

You guys are terrible. :p

-Supposed- to go get it tomorrow. Holiday weekend kinda of messed with the schedule, and then they had to sort out some stuff between dealerships, but it should be all okay now.

did you get the exhaust tips or anything off of the GT before you got rid of it?

Nope. It's okay though. The tips are pretty banged up, and the only other things I had were a couple of FMs and a K&N panel filter. It had some Sony speakers, but the GTP has Bose, so I don't see any need to change those out.

No big loss, really.

hope it wasn't because of the mountain called my driveway

Hmmmmm... take the cat-back off, sell it to me, and put the stock one back one!

It was alot of stuff, so don't worry about it.

Thanks to everyone that put in their advice and experience. The Pontiac dealership tore the trans down and found that 4th gear had indeed been stripped. All fixed now, shifts perfectly, and has a Pontiac warranty on top of the other warranty I got. It's sitting patiently in the driveway right now. The GT's title is in dealership hands.

It looks like a done deal. Just need the bank people to get with the dealership people and that's it.

GTP ftw.

Awesome. Welcome to the GTP family.

congrats well its time

Arc, were you going south on 35 (south end of Waco) yesterday around 4:30?
I was headed up to TMS and thought I might have seen you going the other way on 35.

Let's see .. It may have been me .. I was running back and forth between my bud's house and my grandmother's around that time, and I live right off of the interstate, so it's highly possible.

Seriously, I can throw a rock at I35 from where I'm sitting, right now. Anyone driving on it can see the GTP sitting in the driveway from there, I'm that close.

*expletive*

I got shafted.

I have this Pontiac dealership warranty on this piece of scrap metal, I would rather ask you guys wtf is going on now and see if I can get it fixed without paying for it before I go and have a hissy fit.

It wasn't doing it before they worked on the tranny, but when the car is cold, as in after quite a few hours of not driving it, the first shift from 1-2 is usually a disaster. Feels like being rearended. Hard. After that, it's fine. It's the weirdest thing I've ever seen. If I don't push it and just let it hook up when it wants to, it doesn't shift hard. Doing it that way feels more like .. well, I'm gonna liken it to spinning the tires and waiting for them to hook up, because that's exactly what it feels like. I'm going to take a shot in the dark (Feh.) and say it's this REBUILT (Not NEW like it was supposed to be) tranny.

Shouldn't they have noticed while they were tearing it down, that other gears may have been going down the drain too? The only thing I can think of that would play into this AT ALL is the one time on the way home that I had to get on it to get out of the way of merging traffic, but that wasn't even WOT.

It didn't do this when I went up to the Nissan dealership and drove it to make sure it was shifting into fourth. It didn't do it on the way home. It didn't do it at all that night. Next morning when I went to get breakfast, I am beginning to believe this "possessed red car" stuff. I can say with certainty that it only does it when it's cold. What am I missing?

I'm taking the car and a copy of the invoice from the Ft Worth Pontiac place over to my local Pontiac dealership after work today. What hell should I raise? I know it's not this place's fault, but DAMMIT.

no matter what it is, if it is doing it, take it in, and tell them to double check everything in regards to the tranny. also check your papers to see if they put it in paper new or rebuilt. make them fix whatever is wrong. if they won't (fix it)tell them that it is under warranty and if they still won't do it, then take it to somebody else and have them send them the bill to the other dealership. just a thought, but I would be pissed also

Yeah, just keep all your paperwork and definitely take it in ASAP. If it ever gets ugly and you need to take someone to court, it makes your story jive better if you get it taken care of immediately and have the paperwork to back it up. Don't wait.

I agree, take the car in now and make sure everything is ok. You don't want it to be fine and driveable for 50,000 and then have it fail on you.

Have you checked the fluid level in the tranny?

Could that have anything to do with the computer system, and having to re-learn, so to speak, the shifting patterns etc. ????? Not sure, but definatly take the car back in to the place who did the tranny work. They should have to fix it.

GTP was just now towed off (not even kidding, can still see truck leaving ), back to DFW. The Pontiac dealership was very cooperative about it, even called a tow truck for me and had it all arranged in less than twenty minutes.

It was getting worse by the moment. First gear lagged constantly and jammed itself into gear, second started doing the same. Even when it wasn't really cold.

Will be getting a new trans. One way or another.

Because before it left, I programmed the GTP to eat incompetent people.

Hopefully they will get you a new tranny out of it now!

That is ridiculous. Just goes to show, the stealership charges twice the amount, but gives you half the quality...

I'm sorry, that sucks bad. But at least they are willing to fix it again.

hey any news on the car? have you got it back from the shop yet?

I'm going to warn you all.

If you ever go to buy a car in Texas, never ever go to Thornhill. Ever.

After assuring us that it would get a new transmission at no cost, they have replaced the throttle body and told me it's ready, denying all claims of that trans they promised. They never returned my calls when they said they would (I'm talking days here.), and I had to hunt the CAR ITSELF down after they had it hauled to a completely different city to fix it. It took them two weeks to replace a throttle body?

Absolutely absurd. I wish I had known it was still broken when I bought it. I've made such a huge mistake, and lost my GT that I loved so much for something that's probably still broken while the people that sold it to me backstabbed me with a smile.

Now I know why people have dealership horror stories.

Never again. They got a piece of my family's collective mind, and when we go to pick it up tomorrow, I'm sure they will get the same again. For whatever the f*** good it will do.

dang...

holy crap im sorry to hear that i know how much you loved your GT but whatever you do don't accept the car until you are 100% satisfied no matter what they say. do you have it in writing that they were going to replace the transmission if so take that piece of paper with you and tell them that if they do not fix the problem then you are going to contact your attorney dont use the word "LAWYER" at all in the conversation use Attorney they will take you as being some one who knows what they are talking about if you do.
edit: only speak to a manager as soon as you get there the first person that asks if they can help you say yes i need to speak to your manager.
P.S. if you need some more muscle come and get me all i need is to be home before 4 so i can get ready for work.

Arcxnus PM me with a list of your complaints and the name of the salesman and sales mngr.I'm sure a call from our law firm will get you a little better results in the future,I know dealing with dealerships can be a frustrating experience but there are ways to deal with them .Chico.

Wow...sry to hear that.

I'm very sorry to hear that you have one as well. I bought my first car from a dealer; never again.

I havent been too happy with dealerships, but at least I never had to deal with that crap. Hang in there, and get em, sarge!

I actually considered pulling something legal into this, Chico, but I am so worn out with it .. I'm really hesitant to stress myself out more over it when I have the fortune of having a father that owns a shop that will pick me up when this GTP eventually and inevitably craps out on me.

I shouldn't have ever done this. My GT was fine. Regret regret regret. At least for the moment, it seems to be running fine, but that's all just a prelude to what we all know will happen in the end.

Thanks for the moral support .. I've direly needed it. I'll be here with problems for you guys to help with, and I already have one, which I will detail elsewhere.

I hear ya on getting stiffed. I had a GTP I sold back in June, but I missed having a Grand Prix. I went and traded in my perfectly good Beretta Z26 with 101K on it, I mean I kept this car cherry. I got a 2000 GT Coupe. I've had the car a week and a half and started discovering the problems. I should've checked the car thoroughly. 92K, the heater hoses were linked so the heater core wasn't in the flow (cuz I found out its bad), they had stop leak in the radiator, but it blew out, and the coolant system got that shit caked all through it. It took me an hour and a half to clean out the overflow bottle, unclog the line from the radiator. I got a new radiator in it yesterday, the car had no thermostat, needs a heater core, and god the list keeps going on and I haven't had it 2 weeks yet.