#16322 - 08/25/07 03:01 PM
Re: colder plugs
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Registered: 04/22/05
Posts: 3075
Loc: Cleveland, OH
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Originally posted by ordonez1307:
Pacesetters arent all that bad. Any header for these cars suck. For the price, you cant beat pacesetters. TOGS leak too. Its just a fact of life that if you want your headers to work, get them welded.
Mine dont leak. How can you go say "TOGs leak" and then in the same post say "Mine don't leak" (pacesetters) ? The only way to have a decent headers leak is to do a crappy job installing them. This may not apply to pacesetters, since theres a high chance of leaking even when installed right. For TOGs and similarly jointed headers, if you don't have the donut gasket in good condition and perfectly centered before you tighten the joins, they will leak there. Re-center and its fine. Other causes of leaks on any header is lack of surface prep on the flat-gasket joints, or using crap gaskets. Personally I wouldn't double stack gaskets, either. Felpro FTW. Most people with S&S, TOGs, and SLP headers flat out do not have leak problems. You can't say oh well, they all leak and ignore the fact that pacesetters leak many times more than any other header. Ordonez is lucky to not have leaks on his set.
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#16323 - 08/25/07 03:57 PM
Re: colder plugs
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Registered: 04/30/06
Posts: 3201
Loc: Groton, CT
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S&S have 1 5/8" primaries... same as SLP and TOGs. Pacesetters and TOG Xtremes are the only headers for Grand Prixs with 1 3/4" primaries. That's why some people complain about a loss in torque with Pacesetters... primaries are too big for most everyday applications.
1 5/8" primaries will suffice for probably 80-90% of 3800 motors.
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 '97 SE with alot of mods
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#16324 - 08/25/07 04:14 PM
Re: colder plugs
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Registered: 12/15/05
Posts: 5286
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question on sparks: my stock NA will benefit from Autolite Iridium or not? I just saw Bosch and Autolite ads in Hot Rod Mag, and wanted some feedback before I go and buy some expensive junk for the GP.
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 WizAire CAI w/9" K&N & HV3, 2.5" d/p w/h/f cat, Cobra CB, PowerSlot slots w/Hawk HPS, GR-2s, GMPP handling kit, NextLevel STBs, Pilot Sport A/S Plus tires. 98 L36/MM5 RaC
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#16325 - 08/26/07 04:43 PM
Re: colder plugs
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Registered: 12/15/05
Posts: 5286
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bump. Answer, please?
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WizAire CAI w/9" K&N & HV3, 2.5" d/p w/h/f cat, Cobra CB, PowerSlot slots w/Hawk HPS, GR-2s, GMPP handling kit, NextLevel STBs, Pilot Sport A/S Plus tires. 98 L36/MM5 RaC
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#16326 - 08/26/07 05:21 PM
Re: colder plugs
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Registered: 04/18/05
Posts: 8901
Loc: Bradenton, FL
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Originally posted by zuulmusic: Originally posted by ordonez1307:
[b] Pacesetters arent all that bad. Any header for these cars suck. For the price, you cant beat pacesetters. TOGS leak too. Its just a fact of life that if you want your headers to work, get them welded.
Mine dont leak.
The only way to have a decent headers leak is to do a crappy job installing them. This may not apply to pacesetters, since theres a high chance of leaking even when installed right.
For TOGs and similarly jointed headers, if you don't have the donut gasket in good condition and perfectly centered before you tighten the joins, they will leak there. Re-center and its fine.
Other causes of leaks on any header is lack of surface prep on the flat-gasket joints, or using crap gaskets. Personally I wouldn't double stack gaskets, either. Felpro FTW.
Most people with S&S, TOGs, and SLP headers flat out do not have leak problems. You can't say oh well, they all leak and ignore the fact that pacesetters leak many times more than any other header. Ordonez is lucky to not have leaks on his set. [/b]The reason i said that mine dont leak is because they are welded, which is why i said, "if you want your headers to work, get them welded" Pacesetters dont leak at the donut gasket, they leak at the slip joint at the y-collector.
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Corey Smith 
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#16327 - 08/26/07 05:25 PM
Re: colder plugs
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Registered: 04/18/05
Posts: 8901
Loc: Bradenton, FL
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Originally posted by Richard Candelario:
question on sparks: my stock NA will benefit from Autolite Iridium or not? I just saw Bosch and Autolite ads in Hot Rod Mag, and wanted some feedback before I go and buy some expensive junk for the GP. honestly, i would just go with some 606's or 605's. dont waste your money on the expensive ones
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#16328 - 08/26/07 05:52 PM
Re: colder plugs
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Registered: 12/15/05
Posts: 5286
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awesome. Thanks, Corey. Sure appreciate the advice.
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#16329 - 08/26/07 11:56 PM
Re: colder plugs
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Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 3463
Loc: Gonzales Tx.
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Originally posted by drummerboy1307:
S&S have 1 5/8" primaries... same as SLP and TOGs. Pacesetters and TOG Xtremes are the only headers for Grand Prixs with 1 3/4" primaries. That's why some people complain about a loss in torque with Pacesetters... primaries are too big for most everyday applications.
1 5/8" primaries will suffice for probably 80-90% of 3800 motors. You're right except the S&S headers have 1 1/2" primaries.Chico(pops)
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#16330 - 08/27/07 02:28 PM
Re: colder plugs
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Registered: 07/18/07
Posts: 92
Loc: Las Vegas
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as far as the pasesetters, i was told by zzp that they machine them before they go out.
and they dont have any problems with them leaking
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#16331 - 08/27/07 03:03 PM
Re: colder plugs
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Registered: 04/18/05
Posts: 8901
Loc: Bradenton, FL
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Originally posted by mpulse:
as far as the pasesetters, i was told by zzp that they machine them before they go out.
and they dont have any problems with them leaking lol. imagine that. a company that sells the product says its ok. You should believe them.
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#16332 - 08/27/07 09:32 PM
Re: colder plugs
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Registered: 04/30/06
Posts: 3201
Loc: Groton, CT
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LOL ordonez... "you should believe them"  Yeah, the hundreds of customers with leaky Pacesetters says otherwise. Yes, even the ZZP "fixed" ones. I've heard of a few successful leak-free installs right off the bat, but most have to fight to get them sealed up.
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#16333 - 08/27/07 09:39 PM
Re: colder plugs
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Registered: 04/18/05
Posts: 8901
Loc: Bradenton, FL
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Originally posted by drummerboy1307: LOL ordonez... "you should believe them"
Yeah, the hundreds of customers with leaky Pacesetters says otherwise. Yes, even the ZZP "fixed" ones. I've heard of a few successful leak-free installs right off the bat, but most have to fight to get them sealed up. ZZP knows all. all their products are perfect.
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#16334 - 08/27/07 09:47 PM
Re: colder plugs
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Registered: 04/30/06
Posts: 3201
Loc: Groton, CT
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yes of course... intense too... that LSD is bulletproof
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#16335 - 08/27/07 09:48 PM
Re: colder plugs
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Registered: 04/18/05
Posts: 8901
Loc: Bradenton, FL
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their 1st gen pcms are good too.
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Corey Smith
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#16336 - 08/28/07 01:33 PM
Re: colder plugs
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Registered: 11/17/04
Posts: 712
Loc: Kansas (Redneck Country)
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Originally posted by Digitallyphoenix:
iridiums and platinum plugs are not good in our SC engines. the main issue that makes them bad is what makes them good in NA engines. the electrode tips are smaller then normal. in NA engines this makes the spark more compact and reduces fouling and formation of deposits. but in a boosted motor, the small electrode heats up much faster and becomes a source of pre ignition. also the materail is said to not hold up to the combustion temps.
if platinum plugs are bad, then why would GM put them in as factory OEM equipment?
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98 GTP GMPP handling kit, HomemadeFWI, MSD coils, Taylor wires, 180 drilled tstat, TR6IX plugs, Intense STD PCM, JimmyC DP, Thrasher shift kit (mild setting), AGX/Intrigue spring setup, drilled/slotted rotors with Hawk HPS pads. Hopefully more to come
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