Who's up for getting together at my place and which weekend are you available?

This weekend is plausible, but I have to see what exactly is happening on my end. I may have to postpone depending on what happens over the next couple of days.

If I can land a job soon, pencil me in.

I'm in solid. Looks like all my the stuff I wanted to accomplish over leave got done, except for the LIM/HV3.

Lookin forward to meeting you, Bobby. Hope it all works out.

I'm in.

When's everyone looking to show up?

Remind me to pack that stuff you asked for, or there's a pretty good chance I'll forget. D:

Also my arrival time depends on whether or not your lovely local police force wishes to pull me over some more.

Noonish?

This'll be the first time in over a year that the GTP will be rolling for so long. Who do I call when all of Rick's sabotaging finally makes it give up the ghost?

LOL, I wish I could join ya guys! Once I'm done with my engine I want to do a road trip that way to meet up with more of you.

Will do... heh, well we have the new bypass around town so I'd suggest taking that. It'll be at the overpass just after Discount. Much faster than hitting all the lights in town.

Holler at me if you need assistance and I'll pack the G35 for rescue. lol *I'll even steal parts off of Rick's car if I need to...*

SWEET JUSTICE WILL BE DONE.

*sets capslock on cruise control for cool*

Is that the crap that they were working on last time I was there? Finally finished? That road was a freakin' nightmare and the drivers there are insane.

glad to hear you guys didnt get washed away with all the rain and storms I kept hearing about while we were in Florida. Hope you guys have a good time, wish I could be there.

I'm feelin a stronger need to make a meet now since GM has pwned Pontiac and after this trip the romance with my PT is all but over.

lol, Arc, my hexing was at the track regarding contrast between the Camaro and your GTP, not for driver safety/vehicle drive-ability. I am looking forward to finally meeting you. If you need a temporary fix to get you to John's garage, I'll sacrifice. However, wouldnt you rather have Jon's GTP parts? Thanks for donating, Ace. Quite a great friend you are!

As I told you over the phone, John, I am in. Depending on when I wake up, I should be at your house somewhere as early as 10 and as late as noon. I still need to bring a 360 controller, right? What game(s) you want me to bring? I have:

Ace Combat 6
Halo 3 and Wars
Condemned
Assassin's Creed
The Orange Box
Fallout 3
Oblivion
Grid
Fable II
Call Of Duty 4
Last Remnant

See yall tomorrow morning!

I'm out.

My wife's mom and step dad will be in town for mother's day, so I'll be spending the day tomorrow with them.
Trust me, I'd much rather be spending the day with you goof balls.

Rick, bring Ace Combat 6! I've been a fan of the AC games since AC4 on the PS2. I've never played AC6 since it's not on the Playstation. lol

And I think we'll stick to taking parts from your car, since you're the slowest of the bunch. Can't have you weighing us down, can we?

I'll probably be there around 2.

Bobby: No biggie. I imagined that you had more pressing things to take care of in Austin, anyway.

Ace, AC6 it is. If you cant have me weighing you down, then why take my heavy, ineffective parts? Unless you're trying to sabotage my car so you CAN be faster than either of my girls...finally. *EDIT* 'sides, I think a certain minivan can take you from a dig.

*Additional edit* Just checked NOAA\'s website for the weather in HOU tomorrow: 89*, mostly cloudy, NO RAIN!!! Beautiful day for a mini-meet.

Probably be humid as hell though...

Yes, John. We're in the South. It's GONNA be humid. If only this were NM or AZ...if only.

*shrugs* The parts aren't for my car, so it doesn't bother me. Oh, uh...sorry Arc.

Hey Rick, if you get this in time, gran Grid too. I've got it for the PS3, and it's a fun game.

too late. By the time you posted, I was already asleep. I woke up this morning about 7 and got here just before 10. We're now waiting for the engine to cool. Where you at?

Hey, Arc, answer your phone.

Thanks for taking all the pics, Arc.

Looks like me and Slick are goin to the LIM again tomorrow. Darn it. Burning coolant, moments of KR, hesitation, operating at 210-230*...Not pretty. He's thinkin that the LIM rplcmt didnt take. Either the gaskets failed immediately, were installed wrong, or (on the VERY remote side) that something warped. New gaskets, new torque wrench, and new start in the morning.

Thanks to Slick for opening his house to the lot of us. Thanks Ace and Arc for coming in to visit. I'm VERY sorry that the entire day was spent wrenching. Not very much fun for yall. The three of yall made for a very fun and relaxing day, regardless of the result on the car. I will be posting a write up with Arc's pics in the near future.

Good news: the smoke machine we installed is working perfectly! HIGH FIVE.

Maybe we lost Rick in his own manifolds. I did tell him it was dangerous to be up there.

Arc, you should have seen it later. On our way back from dinner, I was following, and in the middle of the highway it suddenly let out a couple massive jets of smoke. I seriously thought his car just finished breaking itself. Worst smoke of the whole day.

yeah, pretty bad. I was thinking about it last night, since I couldnt get to sleep. This was about midnight or so, and the thought goes like this here:

Remember that corrosion that Arc had called "engine cheese"?

Remember how myself and Slick had dug into the LIM a little to remove some of that corrosion?

Remember how we didnt use to RTV to fully seal around the water passages and such?

My thought is that gouging that was done was allowing coolant to pass by the gasket and seep into the combustion chamber.

Problems with my theory: How did the coolant get by the air intake seals? Not much cleaning was done there. Also: why is my car running hot like that?

Here in a few more minutes, I'm heading outside to remove all but the LIM, waiting for John to get back from church. During re-install, I'll be switching back to the original t-stat I had in there, hoping that will address the overheating issue, but with low expectations.

If only I had fallen into the manifolds, I'll be able to walk around the manifolds and the combustion chamber and SEE what's going on with the car. Poor Colleen.

Just pulled the UIM. There was oil all OVER that LIM. In the aft passenger corner was enough oil to drown my pinky. Also, there was oil under every air passage under the UIM gasket between the LIM and the HV3. Yep, got pics.

Next question: although the smoke smelled like coolant, how much oil was in that smoke? It was nighttime when we noticed the vast majority of smoking, so color differentiation was impossible.

Next up, I think, should be to pull plugs and see what they look like. John thinks we should retorque the UIM and see what that does. We'll see.

Froman and Tengus from CGP dropped by today to claim the tuner and found us wrenching away. Tengus had noticed that the PCV was still in my original UIM. Put that in to my new UIM cleaned all the oil and such out of the UIM and LIM, reinstalled everything, and all is well now. You would not BELIEVE the roar from the intake now, it sounds like a BEAST in there. No codes, no smoke, no performance issues, just running hot (operating temp is 210-215). Let the car cool off, replace this new t-stat with my old one, take it to the zoo while scanning, and hope that all is right with the car.

So the old PCV was spewing oil into the manifolds?

Glad you got it figured out. I had fun, even if it was all car stuff and just a few moments of pancakes. No worries, I'm more than used to that by now, haha. Nice to meet you and Ace finally, we should do this again. Sorry for my crappy pictures, I didn't take many cause I was too intent on watching.

Nice to see we all share a good sense of humor.

Sound like you guys had quite an educational weekend..Glad you got Coleen straightened out there Rick...hope all you guys will be able to make it when I come south again.

We decided at dinner that we'll get together again in the near future, and when we do, wrenching will be strictly forbidden.

Well, we had totally forgotten to move the actual pcv from the old mani to the new one. That's where our vacuum leak came from. The upper was just sucking in air and oil droplets from the crankcase and making hell for us.

After moving the pcv over it was a lot quieter and quit smoking. Seems to run just a tad hotter, but it's behaving itself.

From what I remember, you guys were saying, "Oh, we can't use it, it won't fit," not that you forgot it. :p

I don't even remember seeing the old one... I think you're remembering the insert, not the pcv.

That's what I remembered hearing about the insert and the PCV tube.

Last night, after taking Colleen to the Houston Zoo, to Tengus' house, to John's house, to Lufkin, to Wal-Mart, my wife reported throwing a code when leaving Wal-Mart. At 10 PM. After running ALL DAY.

Thanks, T-Bat. I hope to meet up with you as well.

Arc, Ace: Yeah wrenching next time is OFF-LIMITS. BSing only next time.

Do you know what the code is yet?

Did you guys put the old Tstat in also, or did you just leave it be? Consider throwing a 180 in instead of the stock 190?

Or I guess we could have drilled the stocker.

no idea about the code. I'll try to get that after work today.

I did, indeed, put the old t-stat in, that's why I'm running sub-210*. I do have a 180* hanging around, I might have Bobby install that for me tomorrow.

I drilled my 180 when I installed mine and my car runs sub 210 even sitting in traffic. Once in a while during cold weather I get the "slow warm up" code but it usually rests itself in day. If I get a 3800 Bonne it will get the same treatment.

btw Rick, thanks for calling and wishing Trish a Happy Mothers Day.

From when I talked to Rick on the phone, I thought that was the problem.

Was wondering if she got it or not. Yall are VERY welcome.

Got AutoZone to scan the code for me, which gave the car 20-ish minutes of city driving. She stayed down at or about 190*. She still will be getting flushed tomorrow. *EDIT: The codes were 2 instances of P0171: Bank 1 Too Lean.

When talking with John about this, he thinks that either the HV3 is taking in too much air for the injectors to keep up, causing lean; or all that oil flying by the O2 fouled it, causing bad readings, causing lean, causing overheat. I tend to think the latter.

Which brings up an interesting question: if my O2 is fouled, should I start thinking about a cat?*

Anyone hear of Snoopy/Bobby Dean on CGP from around here? He has(?)/had the fastest GP in TX. He also owns his own repair shop here in Lufkin. He'll be doing the flush. He also STRONGLY recommends using Dex-Cool.

Grr. I hate conflicting experiences/recommendations. Choose either and I suddenly get accused of not listening to advice and thusly refused any further assistance by one party or another. Grr.

*EDIT: Just thought of it: shouldnt parts of this thread be in 97-03?*

Opinions are like exhaust pipes...everybody has at least one.
To me the deciding factor against Dex-Cool was the fact that it doesnt lubricate water pump bearings as well as green stuff, plus it has a long history of not playing well with plastic parts (like we aint got enough of those)

There are those who swear by it since it is organic in nature and it does last a very long time...BUT as its water base evaporates away it will leave a brown sludge like residue behind. This is compounded by added regular tap water to the cooling system. Dex works much better with distilled, deionized water, but how many of us keep that around for just such occasions.

For me personally Dex-Cool has more cons than pros...and thats my exhaust pipe and I'm stickin to it. (no matter how many times I've changed tips)

LOL! Thanks. I decided to stick with Dex-Cool.

After speaking to Bobby, he said to look at vacuum leaks first. I already know where one of those are. On the canister-looking thing on the No 1 bank of the fuel rail. Then look at O2, then AFRs.

My advice... don't use dexcool.

Do easy and cheap first, then work your way up so you don't throw all your money away on one big thing and then have the problem be something insignificant.

Why would you need a cat? All the cool people go catless.

Internet says lolMAF - http://www.obd-codes.com/p0171

Who knows, with all the oil and coolant and smoke Colleen was throwing around. Might wanna just get in there with some electronics cleaner and clean all your sensors, maybe replace the O2.

Searching p0171 on here comes up with a plethora of stuff, everything from fuel pump to injectors. Lol, you have the work cut out for you. D: I wonder if you messed up an injector while you were over there trying to kill yourself with that knife.

ADMITTANCE OF YOUR PROBLEMS IS THE FIRST STEP TO RECOVERY~

Edit: What was that gasket we didn't put back ? http://www.grandprix.net/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=005473#000000

It was a little gasket that goes on a cover bolted to the LIM. We didn't take it off so it's still good. I never replaced it on mine either.


Modders Anonymous: "Hi, My name is John and I'm a modder... I just bought ____ for my car and can't help myself."

I'm gonna get a part number from Chevy here in a few days on that elbow from the canister-looking thing on the fuel rail to the vacuum modulator that was on my passenger dogbone. Froman had noticed that thing was torn, I saw it was a vacuum line, and John told me that vacuum leaks can cause lean conditions. Guess what's getting fixed first?

Following the vacuum line will be the O2, fuel filter (which I doubt is the issue at all), then the 3" d/p w/cat & O2 bung (silence about the aft O2 delete, I dont wanna hear it.).

Looks like I need to go get help from MA as well. My name is Rick, and I am a modder. I just bought an HV3 for my car, and couldnt help but make more work for myself. Please, forgive me!!! lol!

*T-Bat burst into the room of Modders Anonymous*

"Screw the psycho-therapy crap! I am a modder and bloody proud of it! The racing world is built from people like me (with bigger wallets)...advancing technology and innovation all came from modders like me! More efficency, more performance, better automotive ANYTHING is the mother of our inventions."

"Stand and be counted as a higher level of automotive owner who goes against the grain of the countless throngs that tread mindlessly into dealership service departments across this land like cattle bound for slaughter! Dare to say aloud you know more than the service writer with his name labeled blue workshirt. Dare to take the intellectual fop who claims we have an illness and toss him beneath the spinning slicks of a 3000hp Top Fueler. We are the asphalt roaming equivalents of the bold pioneers of the space program. We go faster and become more efficent simply because we have the desire to explore the limits of the unknown!"

"In the great spirit the forged this nation...ask not what a modder can do for you, but thank them for the fact that you still arent riding horses!"

Modders unite!...and revel in the true knowledge than we CAN make our cars better...no matter what the nay-sayers claim!"

(did I overdo that a bit?)

HEAR HEAR!!!! *jumps up and embraces his automotive/modding proficiencies with pride!*

I...I...am modding like heck, and aint gonna take it no more!!!

lol, goobers.

I think we just made a breakthrough.

*golf clap*

Just kidding, you guys are nuts but that's okay. Just don't let the corrosion get to you and I think you'll be fine.

I won't give you any crap about not doing the O2/cat delete, Rick. You and your catalytic converter seem to have a bond that no human can break so I wish you two godspeed in your relationship together. :p I pray that no SES light will ever pry you apart. SUCH A BEAUTIFUL PAIR. Oh dear, the sight of you and your awesome converter makes me weep with joy.

brb throwing up

LMAO. Doth I detect a hint of sarcasm? lol

LOL

Nice observation as always, T-bat. :p


Whatever happened to the pics of the hijackers we found in your engine bay, Rick?

Did he have some mice living under the hood?

No, but we found a furball large enough to be one...

"Hi, My name is Corey and I'm a modder... I bought a

Top-End Swap
ZZP MPS w/3.2 pulley
VS Cam
Ported Inlet/Outlet Blower
Custom Intercooler
-2 1/2" Phenolic with Probe Core
-VW FMHE
-97-98 Coolant Bottle (Reservoir)
-Rule 401FC Bilge Pump
-3/4" Line
Pacesetter Headers
2.5" Custom Cat-Back
-1 Flowmaster 50 Series Muffler
-Resonator Delete
-U-Bend Delete
LS1 Throttle Body
85mm MAF
Custom 4" Intake
Custom Tune
Ported LIM
Fan Switch
INTENSE Poly Motor Mounts
External PCV
EGR Delete
EVAP Delete
Summit Coolant Reservoir
SD Hood
HID Heads
HID Fogs
ZZP Inlays
35% Tint
Tinted Tails
4" Hooker Big Bore Exhaust Tips
AVS Headlight Covers
Clear Corners
Switchback Turn Signals
CCG Grilles
4th Brake Light
PONTIAC Windshield Banner
KYB GR2's
Eibach Lowering Springs
Painted Calipers
Trunk-Mounted Battery
Autometer Gauges in A-Pillar Pod
-Boost
-Tranny Temp
-Oil Pressure
Painted Dash
2 Kicker 12" CVR's
750 watt Kicker Amp
Kicker 5 1/4" Speakers
Kicker 6"x9" Speakers
GTP Embroidered Floor Mats

for my car and can't help myself."

LOL, Arc. Never did get a pic of that one. I'll try and post the pics tonight. Bear in mind this job lends itself to little disposable time.

Gah****, Coery, I'd say you bought a few things!

The cat thing is more because I intend to return home to Phoenix, and they are STRICT on emissions there.

Lmao, this has become an amusing thread...

with Arc, John, Jon, and I, was there any doubt? lol. Slick had commented once, with all four of us in the car, that in that one day, he had heard more silly voices out of me than the entire last year, COMBINED. I cant explain what it is, but Arc sure brought the silly outta me. I think I was serious for about 30 minutes, combined, throughout the whole day.

"gotta take care of those nuts, huh, [Arc]?"

"sure do, John. Dont want something bad having it's way with them, now do you?"

it was a SILLY fun day, for sure! Enjoyed the time. GOT to do that again. Soon. Without wrenching. At all.

bzz bzz~

...and Rick was trying to claim that I was the ricer. Then we find he was stuffing bees in his engine bay in an attempt to sound like rice.

Here are the pics I promised.

Me starting to disconnect some stuff.


Still disconecting


UIM being loosened


UIM ready to pull


UIM off, LIM exposed. notice all the old oil in there?


Closer view of oil pools


Bug husks. John was too slow putting the intact bee back on


Protecting the oil galleys and some passages into the head

Pictures of corrosion and water jacket blockages caused by DexCool and bad LIM design


Same blockage, different head


LIM and new UIM/HV3 ready to install


Arc's car on the right, Ace's on the left, Slick's tail barely visible


UIM/HV3 torqued down, ready for testing/scanning

Oil puddles found the next morning. REMEMBER THE PCV, FOLKS!!!


The next few views are more of oil puddles

Thats how much oil the PCV allowed into the LIM, and thus the combustion chambers


I pulled my finger out of the oil some to show the "watermark"

Cool, I managed to stay out of all of the pics. :p

did you use the new aluminum LIM gaskets by any chance ?? and holy massive pictures

yeah, all gaskets were purchased through Chevy, and the UIM gasket is the one that came from ZZP. it's an in-house gasket that was modified to accomodate the HV3. The GM gasket has a bracket that holds the PCV tube. with the HV3, that tube is no longer used. If wanted, I can take a pic of my old UIM, gasket, and the UIM gasket set from GM.

John had warned me about the size of the pics, but I figure someone out there might need the detail afforded such huge pics. That and I really dont wanna resize in the first place.

lol just change the upload size in photobucket rick.

What do you mean?

When I upload them, I always have to go through pic by pic and edit them down to size. No big deal for a couple pics, but it can get time consuming.

You can reduce the size before uploading to your photobucket album, on their site.

Looks like you guys had fun!

Yes you can change the "upload size" in your settings I belive it is so that way you dont have to worry about uploading massive pics again :-p

you can also post clickable thumbnails.

wow, what a mess!

Size was necessary to highlight and magnify the fine details on the bees.

Just out of curiosity, You didn't do the valve cover gaskets too? It's hard to tell from those pictures whether yours were leaking, but if you're gonna go that far, it would seem worth it to pay the extra $10 for those and do them.

In any case, I plan on doing this same project either this weekend or next. Thanks for the pics/ info

Those were done while I was still in New Mexico. What I hadnt gotten around to before was the LIM and O-rings.

If you need instant advice, PM me and I'll give you my cell number.

See what's left of the bees? THAT's what happens to anything that bugs my car too much. My car is a natural born killer. She's a bad (*^%%$#&^&)$ like that.

Bee mush is the new engine lubricant.

All the Hondas use it. Some side effects may be: decreased acceleration, leakage, strange bodily noises emanating from rear region, inflated ego, distorted sense of reality, and inability to judge speed and/or distance.

hahahahahahahahaha.

I thank you for the offer, but I have done a handful of intake gaskets before, just never on a 3800. From what I've seen/heard it's not the hardest one you'll find. Plus I'll have my uncle helping just in case(I'll be doing it at his place ).

sounds like a plan. good luck. still here if you need/want.

...but it can be helpful with local allergy symptoms...but one trip to the "Hard Rock" should cure any of those ills.

Another side effect of using Bee mush...

This one of those bad allergic reactions I was talking about

"daily driven"

High-five for grammatical travesties.

Luckily, I don't think Rick has had a reaction yet... I'll keep tabs on him and see if his car starts buzzing.

I will say though, once we were done with his car. Like really done, it sounded awesome.

TBat, for a little bit of money the HV3 goes a long way in regards to sound emanating from underneath the hood. Really easy too...

No, no buzzing. Now that I got the intake sounding REALLY good, time to do a little to the exhaust.

Today, received the vacuum harness that went to the EGR(?), fuel rail vapor canister, and modulator that was mounted to the passenger dog bone. Had the code (P0171) deleted. Lets see if the harness fixes the lean condition. more to follow.

Sorry to all that I've been silent here for the last week or so. Been busy at work.