What is your opinion on this movment of the latin illegal people?

I see news but, i'd like to know your position.

What i really didn't like was the mexican flag being burned!

I am against it. (flame suit on)
I will not go into detail.

Me personally, and this sounds weird coming from a half-Mexican, but I like the HR 4437. It's illegal to enter the country illegally (hence the title illegal immigrant), so I think it should be a felony. One of my senior NCOs (think of him as a high-level foreman) was an illegal immigrant, and said it was real hard to get a visa/green card. I think it should be a bit easier to allow people in, but harder to do so unregistered.

What is "flame suit on"?

please Texas go into detail, i just want to know.

When you face heavy criticism, it is a slang term to say you are being "flamed". TexasGP was "putting on his flame suit" because he anticipates that his opinion will make others angry/disagree with him.

My opinion on this topic goes like this:

Quite frankly I don't care about the immigrants that come here. I think they serve a valuable purpose in our country, and most are good people. I don't worry about "national security" or "drug runners" and all that stuff.

But where I have a problem is how every 10 years we offer amnesty to illegal immigrants like it's no big deal. If we are going to keep offering amnesty...then let's make it legal for people to come and go without documents. If we are going continue having it be illegal...let's enforce it.

I guess I'm a "by the books" kind of guy. I believe we have a law, therefore we should enforce it. I don't think we should arrest 11 million people though. I agree mostly with this article:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2006/04/we_need_a_wall.html

A wall would be expensive, and would not be 100% effective...but I think it's a good start. Build a wall to keep out any new illegal people. Make it easier for them to come to the US LEGALLY. Then grant Amnesty to all that are currently here. Finally, you can make it a felony for anyone new who enters.

Again, I have no problem with people entering the US...just do it legally. That is how my grandparents came to this country. Why should citizens of Mexico be more priviledged just because they are our neighbors?

I don't think illegals should have any rights in this country, what makes them think they can just stand up and start demanding rights, they're criminals (by being here illegally). You want access to certain things that are privledged to the citizens of the US, then become a citizen of the US and do it legally. Being here legally and having taxes deducted from your pay is how you earn the rights to some of these certain privledges.

Illegals are wanting rights here in the US? Please. :rolleyes:

That is all.

Keep in mind not all the illegals are of Mexican nationality. A good portion of them are from central america.

I for one am all for immigration so long as it is done legally.

I don't believe in the amnesty. Also I know it's not feasable to round up all the illegals but when one is found through what ever legal means ie traffic stop then they should be processed for deportation.

The influx of illegal aliens only make it harder for those who are trying to immigrate the proper way.

At the same time I feal that the application process needs fixing. Given modern technology with communications the process should be able to run smoother and more efficient.

Hey Alex as for the flag burning ours is burned just bout everyday. Yes it's sad to see but at the same time thats freedom of speech at it's finest. You don't have to like it and at the same time they don't have to like what you have to say

I have to say, I find it VERY ironic that illegal immigrants are using the first Ammendment to protest being deported. They aren't granted free speech, but they are using it. I just think that is kind of odd when you think about it.

And as for Bobby's part about them being criminals..I'll go a step farther. They are criminals AND they aren't citizens. US Citizens that are criminals STILL have rights in prison. Illegal immigrants are below that, they don't have any legal rights.

That is a good point. I should just say those who come across the Mexican border.

Im still 17 so I cant take a side on it.....

I belive that they should have rights in our country.... put yourself in their shoes, they are trying to escape a corrupt gov't, that lies, steals and forces them to brib the police!.... would you try to esscap that to get to a better life? if i could have been, i would have marched with everyone on monday, and would have been proud to do it! i think that it is a growing problem however and needs to be delt with, but this bill going through is just over the top.... i'd hate to say it, but this nation would NOT be the same without the illigals, most contracters hire the day laborors for $5 and hour, and they work their asses off for so little, yet do not complain, i know this cuz i've working in construction and ill tell you, i'd rather work next to a mexican then a white guy... im personally a white guy, yes, but they work untill the job is done... most other guys i worked with, would not do that... and where would this country be with-out illigal immagration, thats how our families got here to esscape the gov't in other parts of the world....

-just my $.02

I'm all for them coming over and doing the jobs that no one else will do, I just think they should do it legally and pay their taxes if they want demands such as health care. Who do they think is going to pay for that health care, the US Government? That's us, you and me. I don't get free health care, neither do you. We pay for these things out of the taxes that are taken from our paycheck.
You made some good points in your post, and I agree with just about all of them. I just think they should pay the same taxes as I do if they're going to strike up a protest and demand rights. That'll give them some ground to stand on.

In addition, I don't understand why we should let anyone come to the US legally through the Mexican border just because they have it rough in their home country.

We turn Cuban refugees back home after they've been floating and starving on rafts.

We deny immigrants from Europe, Asia and Africa who apply for legal status. If we allow anyone to cross the Mexican border and immediately have citizenship, then we are forced to do it for all countries.

That's the double standard I have a problem with.

yes i agree, thats why i dont support deporting everyone that is already here... they should make them go through the process of getting their green card or whatever so they will have to pay taxes and become a citizan, however, not grant amnisty to everyone either, i guess thats where it becomes alil bit of a problem... :rolleyes:

And that is why I think you need to do something to prevent the illegals from entering in the first place. Then amnesty and citizenship become non-factors.

You can build physical barriers, you can arrest them and deport them, you can punish the businesses that hire them, or you can just grant them amnesty.

Punishing the businesses that hire illegals would be well and good if it was done, but of course the government doesn't do this. The other options are all poor choices and would have limited success.

So am I, but I always have an opinion here.

Ok, I think that this is ridiculous, anyone who enters this county illegally should be prosecuted. They do not deserve any rights. I really hate how they are marching, and expecting to get rights. If they were to illegally enter any country with a militaristic dictator, they would be shot on scene. But because this is the USA, we do not kill them, but, they should be punished and/or deported. There are legal ways to get into this country, do it. I think that the INS shoud show up at each and every march that these illegals had, and deport them. If they want to come back in, then they can do it the right way.

They need to make it very hard to cross the border... enforce the current laws there, and fix the corruption.

They need to make it MUCH easier for people to come in and work, for a limmited amount of time. There also needs to be restrictions on the type of work, pay, and number of people in the program.

They need to come up with a fair solution for the people already here. I don't think everyone should get to stay, but we can't deport them all. And its impossible to figure out how long they've been here to help decide if they can stay or go.

Well as mexican of course my feelings are involved, but i always try to get a complete view of the problem and all of you have true points, i'm agree that no one can go to your country ilegally and demand rights, nobody should go to your house at night enter your house and use your stuff, eat your food and when you caught him, he will demand rights cause he did the laundry and wash the dishes.

I'll try to be polite ok? i'm not trying to offend anybody.

What i can see is that Mexico and USA have a lot of commerce relationship, and sometimes (a lot of times) the economic power of your country presses too much other governments to get advantage, a not healthy advantage, and press countries to get the worse part of it, and if yo add that every government has its part of corruption, people gets the worse part of the trades.

You culd say that this trades could be rejected if they're not good enough for us, but reality is different, being realistic USA has an external politics where there are no place for human rights, and commerce and richness is the most important thing.

So there are consecuences at the end that you can't see are generated by this need of economic power. I hope i could explain myself.

Hope this movements don't get worse and become some kind of racism issues and keep on the legal area.

Alex,

I'm sorry I don't understand all of your message. Are you basically saying the greed of the US economy is taking advantage of the illegal immigrants?


If so, that is very true and I agree. But it must be better than the countries they are coming from if 11 million entered the US.

Well i'm not saying that, of course for all immigrants is better to go over there instead of being here.

What i'm saying is that the economic external politics of USA, sometimes are abusive, because you have the power and the money.

Going back to the house example.

You live in a town, and you have the money to do business, then you forget about ethics and start doing business pressing too much your neighbors, they accept your conditions, but in the future you are generating economic breaks on the other families living near you, so, they will enter your house to eat your food if they don't have a choice.

So, you don't need walls, or other stuff to avoid this kind of problem, you need more humanistic external politics to get a better world for everybody, and a say YOU cause your country is the center of economics around the world, your kind of economy is the flag for everybody at this moment.

A real life example of this kind of abuse is this:

Companies of transportation here in Mexico can't go into the US territory, they can't pass the border, because our trailers damage your asphalt (I don't know how) trailers are the same you have there, but american companies can get into mexican territory. There are very restictive regulations for trailers, they have to pass to USA in excellent conditions, good wheels, every light must work properly,etc..., but when an american trailer gets into mexico, a lot of times do not met this regulations, then mexican companies have to get new wheels for your trailers and overhaul it cause if they don't you wont allow it back, and believe me, there is no way to reject this practices.

BTW, the pass is just for the container.

And i'm near this procces, but in the whole trading relationship Mexico-USA are a lot of examples like this that finish breaking companies and letting people without a a job.

That is interesting Alex. I did not know that about the trailors.

But I'm not understanding what that has to do with illegal immigration.

Maybe I'm just slow today.

with this i agree 100%

So what you are saying is that the US keeps the Mexicans from openly trading with us? I think. No disrepect, but what does that have to do with illegal immigration? Just wondering...

Thank you. Us "kids" need to stick together

I personally agree. I also agree with a former statement that was made about how immigrants serve a purpose, however, that purpose is ruined when it is done illegally. The thing is that they aren't called illegal immigrants for nothing. If you enter this country illegally it is no better than me breaking into your house illegally. Should I stand up for a right to break into your house? I don't think you would like that and neither would I? So, why do these people think they can come and break into our house and then say they are not felons? It doesn't make any sense to me.

Hi, i was on vacation.

I agree with all your points, after all it is your country.

Some one asked what my points had to do with illegal immigration.

For me is clear, your companies break down in a massive way our companies, our fields, our economy, so, having as neighbor the most powerful country, full of oportunities, will always be an issue for illegal immigration.

I wanted to say thanks for all of you for keeping this post in a respectful level, i was reading other GP forum, and is not like this.

Canada is our neighbor and their economy does pretty well. Canadians also illegally enter our country, but not 10 million at a time.

I'm sure we do take advantage of Mexico's wages, businesses, etc. But at some point I think Mexico needs to take responsibility for itself. You can't blame it all on the US, can you?

I'm glad we can talk about this too Alex. It's good to hear your views since I do not know anyone else who lives in Mexico.

Yes Canada is a neighbor too but economics in Canada can manage better the power of USA.
I totally agree that my country needs to take the responsability of many issues, a lot of this problem is generated for corruption inside my country, in fact that is the point there are no just one responsible for this, is not just illegal immigrants, nor USA gov, or Mexican Gov, that is why this can be treated just by one side.

Good point Alex, I agree.

i also agree

So walls, discrimination or any simplist solution wont do anything.

Well I think walls and deportation would do SOMETHING, but it wouldn't stop it.

I think it's ridiculous to arrest 10 million people because we don't have enough jails.

I think it's just as ridiculous to offer amnesty because it just gives people even more incentive to come in illegally.

So that is kind of why I like the wall idea. It's not perfect, but it would help a lot.

Some people say "do you know why mexican olympic team sucks?, cause everyone who know how to swim or tu run fast, or to climb high is immigrating into USA...

Yes, I've heard that one. haha. Have you heard the comedian Carlos Mencia? He does some funny jokes like that. His stand up comedy is really funny, but his show on Comedy Central is not as good.

Well, back on topic... Alex, I'm curious what you would suggest to prevent illegals from entering the US? What do you think the US must do since the Mexican government doesn't seem to want to change?

No i haven't hear about that comedian. so please tell me some jokes about mexicans.

I do not have a kind of simple idea of how to solve this problem for both sides, i think even if it sounds too romantic, that when our countries go beyond the economical interests and really take the human resource as a main value, the whole chain will be better. by chain i mean all the production procces. But i think we all are still to immature as a human race to solve this kind of issues without pointing only the economical benefit and fast return of the investments.Being realistic history tell us about empires like USA (as always with all respect for you and your people). This empires always end breaking down, culture, economics and even people that can't follow the way the empires traces the line. And all this of course supported for corruption inside poor countries and a soft carachter of the people...too much bla, bla, bla isn't t? is too complex

well, that might all be true, and i do agree on one thing. The human race is way too immature to try and take on something like this in a reasonable way. I mean immigration isn't the only thing that exemplifies that. I also agree with the fact that we can't just throw them all in jail, because the jails are overcrowded as it is. I don't really see a solution to this problem any time soon. I think the thing that does bother me about this the most is the simple fact that everyone focuses on the Mexicans. Do they not realize that we have illegals from the middle east, Italy, France, Canada, Russia, the Orient. I mean, granted that Latinos and Mexicans are the majority of this group, I don't think we can just punish them and ignore others. This will not be resolved until other nation's peoples start respecting the laws of this nation, but that won't happen until our own people and government respects those laws themselves, but that is an entirely different arena.

I think that at the end breaking borders will be the solution, i really don't care if the most powerful country in the world is going to manage everything, patriotism and sovereignty sometimes are an impediment to develope a good level of life. What i mean is, i'm sure that all poor people around the world incluiding some indian comunities from Mexico, would be happier if they could get an everyday meal no matter if it comes envolved in a mexican flag or american or chinese.

Borders and sovereignity just work for huge corporations, but not for the common people. Tha dark side is that when a country manages the goods of another country regularly people became a 2nd class people, do you know what i mean? that is not good even if you have filled your stomach.

I understand what you are saying, oppression of the strong over the week. Basically, because the US is so huge and powerful, alot of the third world countries, and some that aren't so third world, but unable really to provide for their people will want in if for no other reason than just to keep from starving.

Alex go here for Carlos's official website:

http://carlosmencia.com/main.php


Or go here for comedy central website:

http://www.comedycentral.com/shows/mind_of_mencia/index.jhtml

Well I was going to stay out of this little debate but Buggy just had to throw Canadian's into it,I think you will find 95% of Canadian's are in the US legally at least techanically we are allowed to be in the US 6mths at a time and cross an International border for a day and return for another 6mths,and as far as getting a work Visa fairly simple if you have a trade ,but look at the number of US citizens in Can. 75% are on the run from the law or an irate spouse,remember Vietnam where did all the draft dodgers go and if you check many are still there,what I'm saying is do'nt put Canadian's in the same boat as the other illegals we just do'nt fit for example ask a poor American if they would like to live in Canada then visa versa ask a poor Canadian if they would like to live in the US(wait we do'nt have any poor Canadian's)see our welfare system guarenties a quality of life.Just my 02cents .Chico.

that is it exactly though. I wasn't trying to say anything against Canadians, sorry if I ruffled some feathers there. The point I was trying to make was that no country is immune to the problem.