I have a question for you guys.

I have a choice for my new to me GP. I have located a very clean 99 GT with 105k for $3800 or a 98GTP that needs a little love. for $2800.

the paint is rough, motor has a few little leaks and she has 120K on her.

motor seems to be in good shape no signs of problems with the drivetrain.


so is it worth it to put a little cash in to the GTP or at the end if the day are the GT's just a good - 30hp?

ps, I live 20 miles from Deals gap TN/NC and have recently sold my triumph speed triple, needed a car but want to still have some weekend fun. mainly looking at the GTP for handling over power (though power never hurts). from what I have read they are worlds apart.

also how does the SC effect reliability?

thanks
Thomas

Another question while I have your attention. is there anything to keep an eyeout for with any GP? my wife has a 2000 bonneville (love the 3800 series v6, the main reason I wanted a GP) so we have already been through the foot of standing water in the trunk and changing out the power steering pump from hell. any thing else to look for?

I would say go for GT if you're looking for a daily driver. But if you have any desire to mod for more HP, might as well get the GTP. The GTP will give you all the basics to build up from.

As far as concerns, I would say LIM leak (which is what I have on mine currently ~ GTP) and UIM on GT's I do believe. And of course the dreaded foot of water on the passenger side floor causing the blower motor and possibly the resistor to fail as well. Other than those they are pretty reliable.

well the bonneville was mine originally and when her car gave up the fight she drove it while I took the bike everyday. I can not pry her out of it now... and being that its ass cold here in TN I need a car again

I was always pretty happy with the bonneville's power so I assume the GP GT(being a smaller car with the same drive train) should do just fine.

I have always wanted a gtp but I am worried that it will be more trouble than its worth....


edit for clarity: I do have a 97 blazer that I drive but with my commute (self employed on site service not a commute really) it eats a lot of my profits and is horrible to drive around town.... just dont really like it. I am selling it to a guy that wants a 4x4 to mud up.

hmm after poking around it appears I have been misinformed..... are the GTP and GT are riding on the same exact suspension and support systems???

well i have a 2002 GTP with 89k on her ... well pontiacs are gonna leak GT or GTP cuz of poorly lasting american made parts (not hating on GM but sad to say) well i would go with the GTP if i were you i havent had a problem with the supercharger yet and it runs like a beauty so go GTP...btw my LIM is cracked as well.... so i mean .. its a tough decision maybe do more research first

Yep.

Only a few differences. The bigger ones are the supercharger, differential and compression ratio.

Only difference between the GTP and GT is the engine and tranny the rest is the same.

And yes that 40 hp is a big difference.

but at 120K miles i would think the reliability of the supercharger would be in question. the leak is the head gasket and a few seals around the bottom pans. car sat for a long time as well... I think im gonna pass on the gtp.

I have the guy down to 3400 on the GT and it has been very well kept. dude has every receipt, the exterior and interior are mint. its been garage kept and serviced at regular intervals. better yet, the main driver (his wife) is getting a g8... keeping it in the family :thumbs

so most likely they are not having issues with the car and just want to sell it since they are buying a similar product for the replacement. I going to have my mechanic give her a once over but I think the gtp will be more trouble than its worth and with the amount of traveling I do the gas mileage would suffer a little. Im not concerned about the power as much as the handling and if thats the same, Im all set with the GT.

sound logical?

Head gasket and bottom pans leaking. No thanks, go with the GT.

But, I don't know where you're reading that the "reliability of the supercharger would be in question", but you are misinformed. The M90 requires very little maintenance.

Also, the gas mileage is going to be a bit better on the GTP, not the GT. Just FYI.

Supercharger/reliability is a non issue. As for the oil leak are you sure it's the head gasket and not the valve covers? Both the GTs and GTPs suffer from oil leaks at the valve covers and the oil pans.

Not saying which one to get only giving you info to play with if your search should continue. I wouldn't purchase a car that has "sat" either. Who knows if they properly set the car up for sitting with fuel stabilizer etc.

MPGs between GT and GTP the GTP actually fairs better when you drive like a normal person. On the highway I regularly get between 34-36 when I keep it under 70. Around town my work commute I get 21. 13 miles each way 6 of it is highway at 55 the other 7 is surface streets with little idle time at lights.

wow, I did not realize the SC helps MPG.

The reliability/trouble comment was based on 2 things.

1. higher performance engines tend to have more stress put on them. be it from the increased pressures/compression or driver abuse.

2. if the super charger were to have an issue I would imagine its a pretty penny to replace/service.

I will be passing on this GTP regardless. the oil could very well be leaking from the valve covers but it is saturating everything in the engine compartment. (a good indicator of how this car has been maintained....) the current owner just wants rid of it.

although i really like the idea of the gtp I think Im going to settle on the GT. for the money this one has been meticulously maintained and very well kept. also I happen to be able to pay for this out of pocket without strapping my self.

oh and the MPG idea came from a review I was reading. gt rated average of 23mpg (20/27) gtp rated average 18mpg (17/20). apparently they screwed it up. I will see if I can find the review.

The GT sounds like it might be a better choice. However, that is just based off of the info provided. It sounds like the GT was taken care of better anyways.

yeah I am pretty well sold on this GT more than the GT in general.

like I stated the guy really did a great job keeping this car mint and well documented.

and for the price I cannot pass it up.

It's not the supercharger that makes the GTP more efficient (well, not like a turbo would anyways), its the lower gear ratio, so you run at lower RPMs for a given speed. 2.93 versus 3.29.

For handling, make sure you upgrade to the GMPP handling kit.

I understand completely. I would be sold on that GT, too. I just wanted you to be well informed if/when you look at a different Grand Prix.

An M90 can be had for 100 bucks, used, but they hardly ever fail (i've never heard of an entire M90 failing).

You can always add an M90 to your GT. Like I did!

From the way you describe the GTP in question I'd pass as well. I'm talking in generalities so if you pass on this GT and come across a GTP of comparable condition you have better info to base your decision on.

For general info total replacement of the S/C is highly unlikely unless something catstophic happens. Usual wear items are coupler just gets noisey it's a cheap fix and bearing burn up not to bad to replace the bearings or even a whole new snout. As for extra wear the L67 starts off with a much much lower CR to account for the S/C plus with the torque management and the 2.93 gearing the motor will last as long as the L36.

lol, herc. We have been responding the exact same way, at the same time 3 times now, in the same thread. I've just hit the submit button a bit quicker

GMPP???

link?

info?

I greatly appreciate all the info.

Sounds like if this GT falls through I should be able to look for a GTP or GT and be comfortable with either.

hopefully this will all pan out but it not at least I have a good idea what im looking for now.

Here ya go: http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/results.cfm?singlepart=1&partnumber=pk12456148 and

http://www.zzperformance.com/grand_prix/products.php?id=138

very nice.

I think those will be on my christmas list (from santa to ME ) this year, along with some sticky tires and http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/97-03-GRA...sQ5fAccessories

thank you very much

and thanks to everyone that has helped guide me during this process....

ps the GT went up on the lift yesterday and came back immaculate! next Tuesday or Wednesday i will be the proud owner of my new to me GP

Yah, they put may more stress on the engine but don't you think engineer's made up for this? I'm pretty sure the engine holds up the same if not better then the GT's.

unfortunately from what i have seen out of some other companies I would have to say no, the engineers did not compensate. GM might have but Mitsubishi sure as hell did not.... go google eclipse turbo or eagle talon tsi.

I had a 93 talon tsi awd that while fast and fun as heck broke once a month with major issues. after 6 months of owner ship and 4000 in turbo/intercooler/sensors/syncros/gaskets/valves and other repairs! I had enough and dropped a new engine in it from an eclipse turbo that was totaled with 40,000 miles on it (complete drop in and go system). 1 week later the tranny completely went, got the tranny out of the eclipse (friend had wrecked it) it lasted 6 months with out issue before the turbo went, 3 weeks after that the engine started knocking and eventually seized a minute or so later..... unfortunately I kept dropping money in this thing up until this point because I was 17, living at home and had a full time job with money to burn. I ended up in this car for $13K I bought it for 3K.... it eventually got parted out and I got about 4K out of it.....

so needless to say coming in to this situation with the GTP I was cautious about jumping on it.... Im glad to hear that GM put more thought in to this than the Japs did.....

I can also tell you that all the mods to the GP will be functional or aesthetic. the extent of drive train mods will be limited to CAI and exhaust if any. however i am considering projector headlights and a nice set of blacked out rims.

the Sway Bars and handling kit will definitely be first on my list. @ 150 bucks thats a simple bolt on and go.... and the projector lights just look damn good!

thanks again for everyones help

im glad I found such a great group of people to point me in the right direction.

Another easy, functional upgrade is to go to 1.9 rockers.

That is one advantage of supercharged over turbo, repairs aren't as frequent, or as expensive.

throw some pics up when you get it!

you know it!

just out of curiosity..... for 400 bucks what kind of HP gains are we looking at for the 1.9 rockers and what does it effect. as in why does if give you HP, lighter component? changes open/close ratio??

I have hopped up quite a few bikes but never got much into cars beyond an 88 trans am I had back when I was 18 (post talon)

however most of the tweeking I did on the bird does not apply to the GP unfortunately

the 1.9's are a higher ratio than the stock 1.6's. The difference (IMO) isn't worth the 400 bucks. I didn't actually feel any difference. That's why I'm going with a cam.

Write-up off ZZP's page:

http://www.boyleworks.com/ta400/psp/RockerArms.html

Yeah, I definitely would not pay $400 for them, find a good used set on clubgp classifieds if you go that route. Should help your gas mileage some.

so without a cam your looking at basically 1% ????
or 2.3 HP.....

yeah not for 400 bucks...

well its pretty well finalized.

had the full private inspection done today and she came back pretty much spotless....

wet oilpan gasket (not leaking)

wet intake gasket (not leaking)

needs tie rod ends and brakes at some point in the future (not immediately)

for a car with 100K+ I think that is a pretty good review....

99 GT 105K bone stock one owner mint condition inside and out. $3500 + tax

so Wednesday will be the day I join your ranks.... once I have some pics I will post up with a formal introduction.

Thanks for all the help during the process....

I look forward to adding value to your community and of course reaping the benefits of your huge wealth of knowledge.

Thanks Again
Thomas

Congrats!

The oilpan is normal as is the intake. The top one is probably cause of the valve cover gaskets. The oil pan once it starts leaking you'll have to drop the cradle or lift the motor off the cradle in order to remove the pan to change it. PITA.

Sounds like a good deal. Congrats.

crap, the guy that was going to buy my truck is starting to give me the run around.....



unfortunately if dude does not take the truck I am not getting the GP unless I want to foot it out of pocket until the truck sells.....

crap... crap... crap....

up until now dude has been very confident that he would be picking the truck up on tuesday now he wants to wait until his vehicle sells..... CRAP!!!

I think i might pickup the GP anyway and just finance it until the truck sells....

what do you guys think???

I don't think that dude is gonna buy your truck.

I hear the same sad-sap story nearly every day in this business. He aint selling his, he aint buyin yours, and you're stuck wanting the GT. Find a new buyer, and consider financing the GT.

If you really like the car, and can swing the financing, find another buyer, and get the GT.

I think thats exactly what im going to do.

who said the supercharger is more fuel efficient? thats a straight lie.

The GT will net you better mileage in daily driving especially in the city. But at 90k miles I would take the well maintained card over a best care 40hp gain. Older engines lose power to compression leaks and mechanical wear so maintenance is very important.

I think the justification was the transmission not the SC. thanks for the info though

I don't know how a supercharger can be fuel efficient, since it doesn't use any fuel.

Do you just feel like throwing out broad statements without any sort of justification? Or do you want to elaborate a bit?

Is your GT doing better then 21/34? You gotta remember the GTP uses a different gearing so the motor uses less rpms at the same given speed as a GT/SE.