The guy came and took my 85 Firebird today. I was REAL lucky to have had enough in it to back it out of my driveway, about 75 feet in reverse, then forward about 80 feet. The obnoxious knocking sound (that I had told yall nothing about) seems to be coming from the flex plate. My friend in Savannah suggested either spun bearings or a thrown rod. I hope it aint the engine. Anyway, he said to call tomorrow for the diagnosis, and expect it to be done on Tuesday, MAYBE Monday. More to follow.

While they were installing the tranny today, they noticed a bent shift drum, or something like that. They said that is VERY likely to be the source of that loud knocking. They're inspecting the case at that point, replacing the drum, and testing the tranny tomorrow. I SHOULD have her back in my driveway, without a engine rebuild necessary, tomorrow. Someone do the whoo hoo happy good luck dance for the midget's wallet.

On another note, I was minutes away from saying ok to a engine swap to a 305 for the Firebird. Then all the opinions and advice came in. Time, cost, and effort prohibitive. If anyone is interested why, PM and I'll share the knowledge.

More to follow

If you're going to swap anything on an old TBI Firebird, just do a carbed/built 350 swap. Anything less is a waste of time.

BTW, wtf is a shift drum? Is it an internal part?

Hell, I have no clue what the drum is. Trannies are such an intimidating mystery to me, I almost care not to get confused by them again. The tranny guy said that the case is alright, ALL parts and components, except the case, have been replaced. Test drive will happen today.

About the engine swap, it is a waste of my time and money right now. I do want an LS-series engine, and it will definitely be sans-PCM. When I do it, I'm either gonna use the TH400 or T56 for the swap, so I dont hafta worry about computers at all. Rest assured, though, the swap will happen. As soon as I get rich.

I agree with Rook, swapping a 305 would be pointless. If you're gonna do it, get some power outta it and go with a built 350!

Or go with the 3/4 350: the Chevy 4.3L V6. One of the few v6 engines that you can easily get 500+ HP out of. Like I said, an engine swap isnt gonna happen for quite a few years. At least 5. Mayhaps upwards at 10.

Hi Richard ,
A friend of mine has an 85 Firebird with a 2.8; at some point he plans to drop a V-8 in it. Knowing him, it will be a Pontiac 389 or 400, like his '79 Trans Am. He runs Charter Oak Firebirds and there's a few nice 'Birds in the photo gallery.
Just thought I'd share some eye candy.. Best of luck with your tranny...

Thanks, blackarrow. I'm gonna go ahead and cruise over that way.

So the tranny is done today. I went to check her out, and just like the repair guy said, the internals were SHOT. I might bring them home tomorrow and post some pics. He was going to do a test drive, but...

the engine still knocks. I am more than willing to bet it is the lower end. Either which way I go, I'm gonna end up spending 1400 USD. That 2.8 is gonna get rebuilt. The way I figure it, by this time next week, I will have a drive train that will last another 100-150k easy. And I own her outright. Problem: that 900 USD Firebird now really cost me 4100 USD. I am gonna end up talking to the District Attorney and see if I can sue the dealership for reimbursement of tranny and engine rebuilds.

Rich, go to the 60degreev6 forum and check out your options before you rebuild. You might find something more interesting you'd like to do instead. Also, I think blower kits for the 2.8 are around $1k. Something to consider.

You could get a new motor for roughly the same price.

I looked into that. A new long block costs 1400 USD. Minus S&H, removal, component transfer, reinstall, fluids, and system check.

The guys doing the rebuild just gave me a call. he said the oil didnt look changed for AWHILE. She did indeed throw a rod, and the dealership must have only done a cursory oil change due to all the sludge, build-up, metal flakes, and other assorted nastiness in the engine. OH! and the intake mainfold had a sensor JBWelded into place, with quite a few otehr sensors being outright broken. The fact she ran AT ALL...

Good news: the block and heads should be fine. I should have her back by Friday next week. had I known all this crap, I woulda done it myself, they sure didnt save me any time. Oh well. When I get the bad parts back, I will be posting pics of engine and tranny.

congrats! bet she will run like brand new once u get her back!

That thing has some serious potential! Keep us updated.

Potential with a 2.8? *buzzer* later on with the SBC... *dinging bells*. Be sure that I will continue with the updates. Thanks for the props, yall.

Well, while we're waiting for the engine to be completed, I decided to go ahead with pics of the tranny damage. Those who really love cars really should avert their eyes.



Those rings should have the castellated look inside of them.





yep, that's not supposed to look like that



another view of the same part

more pics of Belen's tranny



see where the drum rubbed on the bellhousing?



Look close, you can see the flare of the drum



You're lookin at teeth getting worn off by the bellhousing



just a distant shot of the same spot.

engine parts will be posted as soon as I get them.

wow... what did the previous owner do to this car

I dunno. Like I said earlier, there was NO tranny fluid in it from the dealer. Overall, prob some dumb kid tryin to make it a bad street/strip racer (with the 2.8L) and realized that the tranny was going out, the engine was having issues, then dumped it on this dealer. Then, of course, the dealer didnt do anything about it. Then saw me coming. Oh well. got a second car with a brand new drivetrain. that will hopefully be around long enough to be a project.

OUCH

Didn't you say you are trying to get some money back from the dealer for this hassle?

Yeah, looking to try and sue for reimbursement under New Mexico's Limited Merchantability Clause. Even though I bought the car As Is, No Warranty, in New Mexico, a vehicle must be in good operating condition for at least 15 days. Buyer need NOT return vehicle, and dealer MUST pay for repairs. I'm having a friend look for precedents right now. Total amount of repairs: 3300 USD. MAYBE the judge will allow a little bit extra for damages, but I'm not holding my breath.

Most states have a "lemon-law" that protects buyers even when no warranty is implied or expressed. You may be in luck.

nice damage!

I hope you do get your money back. I could never sell anyone a bad car like that plus since your getting belen fixed, if you do get your money back thats more money to do more mods to the car.

Nope. Suspension to Colleen, then bank what I can. Remember, I'm tryin to finally get out in 3 years.

Here in just a lil bit, I'm gonna edit this with pics of Belen's air plenum. Not pretty.

Got to see inside her oil pan. You guessed it, looks like a frag grenade went off in there. Pieces of twisted ring, rod, piston, bearing, and something else in there. The oil looked about the consistency of jelly in the wrench's fingers.

They've been running water in the system for AWHILE now, and the pump/water jackets show it.

The oil pickup had pieces of metal in it, and as such toasted the darn thing. There was some kind of tarnish on the air butterfly that may have been oil. The exhaust manifolds had quite a bit of oil all over the interior passages.

The wrench had told me that he thinks it was a miracle that I drove the car the 30 miles to the house. Never mind the fact that I have a 3000-foot mountain to climb to get home. I told the wrench doin the work for me to get pics of ALL damage, to go ahead and box up ALL parts, save common hardware, and give me EVERYTHING he can (ya know, cores aside). I asked him to get the machine shop to write a statement on what was found and what the causes could have been. At this point, the lack of maintenance has got me PISSED. I will be going through with the lawsuit. Sandoval will be paying for this lack of professionalism. I'm lucky that I can afford this. What I think they were hopin for was a poor high school kid to snap this car up so they could get rid of the car and not worry about legal retribution, since the kid wouldnt know they COULD sue. Then they messed around and pissed of a Soldier. An NCO at that. Time to get to work, fellas.

EDIT:

JB Weld on the top of the plenum:


The crack they were trying to fix:

I say once its fixed, you go roast some tires in their dealership parking lot!!!

LMAO!!! I just might. I just might do that.

thats awful what dealerships think they can get away with...its a good thing u have the money and found this out before it was too late good luck with the rebuild and i dont c why the courts wouldnt side with your case look at the pics... but good luck...

Thanks, I sure preciate it. I sure as hell hope the courts side with me. Thats about 3 grand and a month and a half of repairs, dammit.

well, I finally have something worth while to report: the engine is done and ready to stab. matter of fact, the wrench said the engine will be in today with tomorrow being a tune day. here are some pics:

Here are some from about a week ago:

a week ago cont'd:

oh, and btw: anyone know where I can find polished valve covers for the Chevy 2.8L? I'm not quite sure I want the valve covers Hugger Orange. I couldnt find anything.

awwww, it's a cute little engine!

actually, it does look very nice. glad to hear she'll be back together soon

Only took a few months for them to finish, but with rebuilt tranny and engine, she should run like a bat outa hell!


...still think you should have thrown a 350 in her

That's a tiny motor you got there.

I agree with ifitwasnt4u, go find a 350 longblock.

Did the I-ROC camaro's have 350's in them?

I honestly don't know much about older cars, much less V8's lol.

IROCs had 305s. Some Z28s had 350s. Either way, I would also need a new bellhousing. Not about to go there just yet. BUT...an LT or LS series mill with T56 mated IS in her future. I just hafta get rich first. That and make sure that the nasty car can handle that much more power. Im tellin ya, that lil 2.8 was abused, neglected, and otherwise violated. Poor lil motor.

Thanks yall. The engine should be done tomorrow, leaving the tranny shop to tune it, if it needs it. With any luck I can get my family outta this rental we got stuck with. (read my inspection post in 97-03)

Is that your Firebird in the pic? Your sig says its an 85, but that doesn't look like an 85's tail lights.

the VIN says 85. There's no tellin with this car what parts are from what year.

Yesterday he told me to call him at 1100. I did. And again at 1115. went to the shop. it was ALL locked up. sat out front of the shop for 2 hours callin him just about every 10 minutes. And Im still in the rental Civic. I promised my brother that I wouldnt lay hands on this man, but it's gettin really hard to stick by my promise. The wrench, after all, broke his promises several times over. I'm so upset about this, I have no idea what action I wanna take next, or if there is any action I CAN take. All it's waitin on now is the UIM and stuff up top to be plugged in. Im almost thankful that he's goin out of business, Id tell ppl to steer away from this guy like the plague.

what all this boils down to is GRR.

Yall remember the the pic of my UIM? The crack on the fwd #2 side? Well, the wrench said that he's gonna take it and TIG the crack if his coworker wasnt able to find a new UIM at the junk yards. In any case, I will be driving the thing off to the tranny shop to get final tranny tune tomorrow after work. Here are some new pics:

Her heart and soul is in. Kinda.

Still needs that UIM


The bay from far out


My two Ponchos at the repair yard


So, yeah. Tomorrow night I should have pics of her in my garage or driveway. Not sure which one yet.

Is a turbo in belens future?

not the V6. The LT/LS V8, possibly. Not sure. I think I might end up staying NA on both cars. Only time will tell, though.

there is SO MUCH ROOM in the front of the engine bay. that car was not made for 6 cylinders

dont I know it. My wife had pointed it out one day, and I had envisioned Cirque du Soliel doing a full number in there. Seriously? I think I can stand between the pulleys and the fan and have a couple inches to spare.

I found a UIM on Ebay...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/89-Pontia...4QQcmdZViewItem

It's has a Buy It Now price of $50.00


Hope this helps

TOO FREAKIN AWESOME!!! Just bought the thing. Seller is yet to contact me back concerning ship and delivery time, but it's only been 15 seconds or so since I won the item.

Caesar, thank you very much for finding that item and telling me about it. Cannot tell you how much its appreciated.

I'm glad I could help.

I hope it's in great condition.

And I typed in my zip code to get an idea on your shipping costs...it shouldn't be more than $12.00.

12.72 USD as a matter of fact. speaking of, I really oughta check my email, huh?

EDIT: Got an email from the seller. Sure enough, it'll be shipped tomorrow. The seller was not able to guess as to when it might arrive, which is not much of an issue to me, truth be told. Send my wife out on the town tomorrow to get the AC bearings for the GP and the intake manifold gasket set for the Bird.

Durn wrench. Went out there today RIGHT after work. Still in uniform and all. When I arrive, he tells me that they just learned that the starter wont start. I saw the crack (how could anyone miss it?) but didnt think the crack would affect anything.

Took the starter to Pep Boys to have it tested. Sure enough, the ppl at the desk back there said they wont even test it because the crack, and that the part wouldnt have anything to turn the engine over. 75 USD later, I took the reman over to the shop. Just to have them tell me that they are unwilling to install the starter this evening, and that the rocker adjustments and starter would hafta wait until morning. According to the wrench, the car will be at the tranny shop right around lunchtime. That gives them all afternoon to do whatever else to the car. I swear that I will lose my...mind if that ^&#*( car aint done by the time I get off of work.

WOW, now you know not to goto that shop next time... I would have lost it a long time ago, but I guess you cant really unless you wanna take ur car from him at the same time..

pretty much. pretty much. taking a look at the engine, I saw myself that they're gonna hafta take a lot of stuff off the engine to get to the valve covers so they can do their adjustments. With them reopening the engine like that, I dont wanna piss them off just yet. Also, I might need his testimony in court. He could become unwilling if I decide to let him know EXACTLY what I'm thinking. Oh, all this politicking is makin my head hurt.

You know what? I would have said OK, grabbed a ratchet and put in the two bolts holding the damn starter on myself, on the spot.

I tried. Believe me, I tried. Thats about the same time I heard one of his buddies say something about shop insurance. Tomorrow. There's always the hope of tomorrow.

Well, the engine guy FINALLY got done with the car today, and gave it to the tranny shop. The tranny guy tried to get it to shift, but it wouldnt leave first. The tranny guy said that's most likely a non-issue. New governors sometimes stick like that. Easy to get to, easy to fix. However, the car does go into 1st and reverse real smooth and both of those gears work beautifully. There's hope, and a lot of it, for the tranny when that leaves the shop tomorrow.

What was just not right was the old, worn out exhaust. There's a large leak right at the DPs. Theres at least one bolt missing from each donut. BUT I already anticipated exhaust work, anyway. No real big harm, only minor foul.

The AC didnt work as advertised. it has plenty of freon, just no good blow, and it doesnt get cold. grr.

The radio still dont work. Im thinkin about buying a good cheap HU from Best Buy and telling them to install it. Teehee.

Otherwise, the mill seems ok. No lifter tick, valve tap, or piston slap. Its almost like its all gonna be ok after all. The tranny guy said he'll be for sure done tomorrow by the time I get out of work. Maybe in time for lunch. I doubt I'll go get the car at lunch, it's a nice lil drive into Cruces from here.

Congrats!!!! and may I say, about damn time the shop finished!

you may say, and I wont be fazed. I am in a daze and a lil bit crazed by how late of a date the fix was made, and how an exhaust leak he did, of course, make.

Oh well. He's going out of business soon.

I found some chrome valve covers for you -> http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new/mc/accessories/vc_ss_chrome.shtml
Part #4488. No price was given, but at least you've got something to aid in your search.

I spent an entire day looking for those, how'd YOU find them? Not fair. Awesome, and I thank you very much, but still not fair.

I don't know...I guess I have "the gift"

http://www.wbodystore.com/grandprix/w-body-store-aluminum-valve-covers-p-120.html
i found these in about 10 secs, beat that lol

nvm, dont even, those arent for your little engine, thats for a 3800, jk, but i also found these for 75
http://www.zzperformance.com/grand_prix/products1.php?id=777&catid=101

nvm again, i found some chrome ones, but i dont think it's actual chrome, for 20 bucks, 12 shipped
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chevy-V6-...7QQcmdZViewItem
all of those items in less than 5 min

most of the valve covers i found though, were for the guess what... 5.0L V8, not the puny lil' 2.8L V6 jk

lol, keep insulting the 2.8. At least it's RWD. AND I can drop any SBC and even a few BBC mills in there. Beat that, Mr "I'm a FWD V6 car-driver" guy. HA! lol, jnust messing with ya, man.

I do appreciate the searches. I really do, but valve covers arent a high priority. If I have the money next time I need to remove the valve covers, then I might grab some. Im really tryin to save upgrades and such until I can afford the SBC that I want.

ya RWD is something i wish the GP was...

Richard can you explain the acronyms? Is that a Solar Box Cooker? or a Bakers Box Cooker?

Small Block Chevy
Big Block Chevy

SBC=305-396-ish Cubic Inch Displacement
BBC=400+CID

to figure CID from Liters: 3.8 x 61.02= 231.876

to figure Liters from CID: 231/61.02= 3.785

5.7 x 61.02= 347.8 or 350

Got my Firebird back today. Tranny sticks a lil, but he said that's normal. Keep driving it until the stuff breaks loose. Shouldnt take more than a day, he said.

The engine guy had wired my plugs wrong, and ALMOST had an engine fire. I yanked the wire outta the boot to kill the sparking that was going on. Will post a pic tomorrow. Went to Autozone to grab a set of Bosch wires, grab a thing of coolant (cause the car overheated, too), and went back to the Bird. This is the point where I realized that the wires were plugged in wrong. How'd he get the durn thing to run like that? I have no idea.

Ran to the gas station because I noticed the tank was dry, JUST as I pulled in, the car died. I used the E-brake to stop as I pulled even with the pump. The car wouldnt start after that. A couple ppl that were passing by had both said it sounds like the car's not getting fuel. Filter and pump tomorrow.

I'm pissed because of the wires, but the rest of it? It wasnt either of their jobs to check my fuel filter or pump. Im beginning to wonder when enough is enough, ya know? Like I said, pics of the plug boot tomorrow. Hopefully I'll also have pics of her in my garage.

If it was running on vapors and then died just as you pulled into the gas station, then there won't be a fuel charge in the lines.

Obvious, I know. But what that MEANS is that you need to crank the car over a bunch of times to get the air out of the system.

I wouldn't jump to the pumpa nd filter just yet. If it was getting fuel before, it probably still is now, you just ran it dry.

I'm guessing it's not fuel injected? You may have to mess with some kind of syphon and the throttle and try to get some fuel back to the engine.

Yup, Sounds like the engine is vapor locked, siphon the lines and she should live again

oh, she is EFI. I have cranked her a BUNCH of times. We'll see tomorrow. Or, later today, sorry.

When will the madness stop?!? Sounds like you should've sent that car off to the scrapyard long ago

how much did you pay for it again?

I paid 1,000 USD for the car, 1400 USD for the tranny rebuild, and 2600 USD for the engine rebuild. In defense of the wrench, I said rebuild the engine. I said nothing about any of the engine wiring or sensors that are not plugged into the engine.

The fuel rail indeed had pressure. I hooked the wires in right, and the batt had plenty of juice. The car is now in the possession of my trusted wrench. This is my last attempt. After this, if it dont work, i'm gonna find a way to get rid of it and get SOME money out of the damn thing

the latest in the epic saga of a POS: The "heart" of the car is finally out of ICU. A burnt distro cap, fried wires, roasted distro rotor, bad radiator hoses, a warped and stripped radiator tank, and a shot power brake booster is all that CSR fixed. After paying this bill, it's back off to the tranny shop so he can try and solve the shifting issues. After all this, Belen has one more date in the OR: I still hafta install a new UIM.

Also upcoming: a prognosis on the wires inside the engine bay and exhaust plumbing, and whether or not I have a horn installed. I sure hope I get this damn car broken in before I report to Recruiter School in January. I am really beginning to hate this frickin car.

well i will give u 900 for it ... cuz thats what im getten for my scholorship money haha ... you could have just gotten a crate 350 for 1700 plus intake man and carb... that would have been way better

Any news from getting money from the dealer?

OUCH! That really sucks

4dr: You would hafta bring the price up considerably considering she has a new engine, new tranny, new what you read above, and cost me a grand initially. And please dont rub the SBC in anymore. Ive beat myself up ad nauseum about it already. The engine, tranny, and PCM, all turn-key, woulda ran me less than what I paid already. Leaving me enough money for the wiring harness and a few others. I am PISSED.

20GTP02: Doesnt look like I have enough time to do that anymore. I think I jsut took it up the butt on this one. We'll see.

About taking it back to the tranny shop, he aint charging me anymore than I've already spent, and he already warned me that 700R4 trannies are hard to tune after a rebuild. He doesnt seem to think that it would take too much more time or effort. My frustration and anger are directed towards the first rebuild shop and the dealership. And myself and the car. grr.

woah easy there i was just messing around

no offense taken. sorry if I came across that way. This car tends to be a bit of a sore subject for me.

lol yes ... we have all had cars like that

Richard, at this point you should have gotten my 3100 w/ harness and PCM and tried making that work in it. Someone absolutely abused that thing with and iron fist.

oh, but they have, havent they?

I'm not sure the engine and tranny woulda mated up correctly or not, but it woulda been a performance mod in the strictest sense, wouldnt it?

This last weekend, I went up to the tranny shop to see how he was doing. He told me that the car wont start. Funny: it ran from CSR to the tranny shop ( a drive of less than 5 minutes, including stop lights). Why not a week later?

Tried to jump it off using the GP. All the Bird did was try and electrically kill the GP. Went and replaced the battery. Tried to crank again. She was OH SO CLOSE to turning over on her own. But never did.

The tranny guy said he's gonna look at the plugs and look for fouling. After that, I suspect timing.

Why timing? The car was shaking violently while tryin to turn over, the starter was clicking, the interior chime was making noise, the fuel rails were pressurized, and the wires are brand new. The distro cap was mounted 180* out, and mis-wired. If the crank, cam, and distro were all far enough out of time to actually be operable...oh damn. No. The car ran after the distro cap was re-timed.

Ladies and gentlemen, I do believe I dont give a *&(% what happens to this )*(&^% car anymore. Im actually kinda hopin the )(*^%$% thing does catch fire again. This next time, I wont do anything to help the #$%( thing.

@(*^)^$$&*%#$(*)(*&%##$!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Get that poor thing here and I'll make sure it lives a valiant life or a heroic death.

The first time I floor the gas after I'm done with it and I'll probably twist the front end off of it.

I just got a wild hair, and decided to do a little shopping. Jegs, Summit, JCWhitney, ClassicIndustries.com, nor Pontiac/Chevy offer wiring harnesses for the 2.8, 5.0, 5.3, or 5.7 3rd Gen F-Bodies. Where else can I look for these parts (aside from junkyards)?

I'm currently at work and cannot browse eBay right now.

Thanks yall.

Have you tried

http://www.painlessperformance.com/index.php

Is it too late for a crate motor?

Some warnings on the LT1- The distributors are paint to get to and cap and rotor are expensive. If it was me, I'd go with an older 350 or an LS1. Can't help you much on websites.

Bob, it was too late as soon as I paid for the 2.8 to be rebuilt. I am starting to entertain the idea, though.

John, if you were able to do that, it would mean the freakin thing ran in the first place, then I wouldnt be this frustrated.

Bummer about the LT1 mill. That what I was thinkin of starting to shop for. Much cheaper than the LS-series.

Year One is starting to look like it'll be my best friend. Now on to Painless. Thanks yall.

Just got out of the Painless website. Nope. T/A parts only. I appreciate the lead, though. Keep 'em coming.

As requested: just about 2 weeks ago, I took my car from the engine folks to the tranny guy. While I was trying to get her started, she was really hesitating and not really wanting to turn over. She then drove just fine to the tranny shop, less than 5 minutes away. Last week, I paid the car a visit to see if the tranny guy was able to get her started. I had to buy a battery. She wouldnt turn over with the new battery. It's now back at the engine folks while they figure out why it wont start, after they had driven it a few miles and it started faithfully.

My co-worker, who is BIG into classic muscle, said she'd be happy to get the car from engine to tranny shop, then break the engine in locally (since neither one of us trust this POS), until I get home. I gave her the instructions that should the car catch fire again, get her, her stuff, and my logbook out of the car and let the &*()^$#^*()_(^$)_*(%(*&_)^&%$^%$#^% thing burn to the ground as long as no one else is endangered by doing so. She offered to buy a fire extingusher. I told her to not bother.

Stay tuned. I just might have roasted Fire Chicken pics next time I post.

Just put the thing on a car hauler headed east and tell them to drop it off at Slick's Automotive Hospital.

It just needs love.

Or maybe it needs an ignition module and magnetic pickup coil in the distributor. Just a guess on my part. Next time it cranks and doesn't start, check for spark...

got word a few days ago that the wires were routed wrong. Starts right up and runs fine. God, I feel like a retard. Either way, this car starts flamin again, Zerg's post will end up bein reality. Grr.

Richard,
Auto Zone has online repair guides, in case you run into problems: 82-92 GM Firebird

well, went and ran the car for about an hour today. Good thing. That thing is such a gutless wonder. very hard to start. It wont make it over a hill between it and my house. Im gonna either wait and get a truck/trailer to bring it here when I move, or get a co-worker to hook a trailer up to their truck and get it here before I move. Boy, Im glad I bought that POS. grr. either way, transplants are gonna hafta wait till I get to my house in TX.

Very hard to start....could be a restricted fuel filter and/or clogged cat (especially since Belen has had misfiring problems).

hmmm. could the fuel pump have anything to do with that? I doubt it myself since the car EVENTUALLY started and ran for that hour. the misfires was supposedly from miswired distro cap. could the car be running like [crap] because it's such a "new" engine? Cat wouldnt surprise me. But then again, neither would an array of bad sensors. Something tells me that the [crap]bag of an engine guy I had forgot to replace like ALL my sensors. I am gettin to HATE this car. too bad I already sank so much into it that I cant be rid of the [long line of expletives saying pretty much one thing: Belen].

Sucks you can tinker on it yourself, not like it is a 3.8. I guess you don't know any friend like mechanics? I go to one that my parents have known for 20+ yrs. Sorry to hear about this. Maybe getting a book or reading online about the workings of the engine and electronics in that car will help you dive in and say forget the idiots and wrench yourself!

thats what Im hopin for, honestly. Im sure that all it needs are a bunch of new sensors and to be broken in. Problem with that being that Im not sure I wanna spend any more money on the powerplant. It's already sucked enough out of me.

John: if you can make it out to wherever Im goin next, I'm thinkin that Belen just might hafta check into that clinic. Prob: do they take MediCare and MedicAid? I dont think Belen can afford any ritzy hospital...

Hi Rick,

Since the car does eventually start and run, but seems to have a hard time doing so (and runs like crap), here's some things I would check, based on past experience:

1. Verify that the yellow Check Engine light works when you turn the key on; should look like an engine outline on the dash, iirc. A burnt out bulb, missing bulb & socket, or bad lamp driver module is like unplugging the ECM...the car will be hard starting, and the idle will be erratic.

2. Remove the fuel filter, and empty it into a clean plastic container. If there's dirt in the fuel, or the filter feels heavy, replace the filter. A restricted filter will weaken/damage the fuel pump. A fuel pressure test should also be done. Should be 30-44 PSI. Might have a bad Cold Start Valve or pressure regulator as well.

3. Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor..is it shiny brass, and sitting in anti-freeze? If not, that can cause hard starting and poor performance. As an aside, I wouldn't trust any engine sensors on a 23 year old car.

4. Check the Ignition Timing , and verify it's set to spec.

5. Check the Catalytic Converter- I have a '79 Olds 98 LS (350 4 bbl carb), which had the original cat and approx 160,000 miles. Ran fine on the highway until you reached a hill, then the speed dropped down to 40 mph, with your foot to the floor.. Replaced it with a new one, and the car now runs like a V8 should. Would run even better with a 455 & dual exhaust of course, but still.. Heck, even my GP runs much better after installing that Magnaflow downpipe & cat. Then again, the OEM cat was a bad design when new..

BlackArrow, you have gots ta be the single greatest car hero out there. Im seriously thinkin about having the car hauled up here to my house before I move. If so, those will be checked. If not, I'll check those when I get settled in. Thanks for the checklist, dude. I REALLY appreciate it.

BTW: how'd you get the info? I've been lookin for the last year for info just like that.

Actually, I left the link for you on page 7 of this thread, and if you do some navigating on that site, you'll find things like the Firing Orders as well. Incidentally, it's kinda hard to mess up 1-2-3-4-5-6, and if your mechanic did that, you need a new one..

so, uh, when you moving to Texas, then?

What I do remember is that the SES light turned on when key turned to On. The light came back on when she decided not to start or when she stalled during warm-up. Also, the idle was glass-smooth.

EDIT: The SES remained off the whole time the car was running.

The rebuild guy SHOULDA replaced the fuel filter, but we see how reliable that [dirtbag] turned out to be.

The ECT: I have no doubt that that is bad. Like I said, all these checks will be done as soon as I can get to them.

Thanks again, man.

Have you tried to read any codes on the computer, they are alil tricky on an OBD-1 computer like that. Have to jump two leads and you will see the check engine light flashing, count the flashes...


For GM domestic vehicles made before 1995, the diagnostic connector is located under the dash panel by the driver side. To get the check engine codes to flash in your dash panel, use a jumper wire or a paper clip and connect terminals A and B of the diagnostic connector. Turn your ignition key on with engine off and the codes should start to blink. All codes should start with code 12 which is one long flash followed by 2 short flashes. This code 12 means the diagnostic system is normal and will repeat itself continuously if there are no trouble codes. Otherwise, code 12 will flash 3 times before flashing the fault codes.

The SES light coming on when the car stalls is normal, because the ignition key is on, with the engine off. If it comes on while running you've got codes, which you can retrieve with a paper clip. Find the ALDL connector under the dash, jump terminals A & B (refer to the Ignition Timing link), turn the key on, and count the SES flashes, like Morse code. Each code should flash 3 times starting & ending with Code 12 (normal, means key on engine off). Or you can get it scanned at Auto Zone...
The engine should run with a fast idle & lower itself when warm (no stalling), if the ECT sensor & other sensors are working properly.
Your PM box is full, by the way..

oh, damn, lemme clear that out. thanks.

ok. cleared out the PM box.

Autozone will not read a OBD1 computer.

nope, but they will find a paper clip and read the dash.

Rick, just drop the car off at my place on your way to hicktown...

Although, it might be more at home on blocks in the middle of redneck country.

the more you say that, the more tempting it becomes.

all Im missing now is a mullet and Member's Only jacket. Oh, and the Wayfarers. Cant forget the Wayfarers.

2bad you wernt closer to me ... i could read all codes for you and i could help you out with your motor/wiring problems it seems thats one thing that im fairly good at is wiring stuff up.

Andrew, the 'Bird isnt throwing any codes. it's just gutless and hard to start when cold.

you were talken about the ses light... well i could even read real time data on the car ...

yeah, BlackArrow had asked what the SES light was doin. The car isnt throwin any codes while running. However the real-time data would come in REAL handy. hmmm, how to get teh POS up to you...

idk .. any way possible ... i would love to help out on this project any way i could

ya know what? I would love to get help on this project any way anyone could. The information Im getting is REALLY gonna come in handy. I sure hope that this server dont crash or the domain fees dont lapse, then Id be SCREWED.

You wouldn't be screwed... If I recall correctly you have plenty of resources stored in that phone of yours... :p

that I do. More would be welcome, but this phone is pretty darn handy for wrench support.

so, uh, with a cracked and leaking plenum/UIM, would my engine sound cammed out?

that thing started up in about 2-3 minutes today instead of 10-15. she wants to come home. she leveled out idle VERY quickly. the exhaust is a bit aggressive sounding, which means most likely Flows (on a 2.8? why, lord, why?).

She's still a gutless wonder. 0-60 in around 10-15 seconds. at least today I was able to get 4th easy and get the kick-down gear. like the kick down gear matters in a sans-balls V6 *snickers* muscle car *teehee* such as mine.

Im still confidant that the POS wont make it over that hill between Cruces and home, but at least it can handle whatever Texas' Hill Country can throw at it. Barely.

Yep. The engine tries to compensate for the large vacuum leak and causes a stumbling that sounds like a lobey cam. It will also cause low rpm hesitation when you accelerate.

well, that tears it. I needa get Belen back to the house so I can replace the UIM. Ive had one sittin here since about summer last year. with the gaskets. c'mon Hot Rod Buddy Co-Worker, I need you to get back from TDY for car-hauling help...

btw: anyone have any feedback on Victor Reinz Gaskets? Thats what the leading distro here in town had in stock.

Thanks for the feedback, Jon.

i saw in the other post of yours you had it in an unsafe part of town, bring it up to iowa you can keep it here for free only thing is you have to let me work on it and drive it once and a while lol

lol. Im expecting it not to be in any danger any more once I get to Lufkin. Thanks for the offer. However, you are welcome to come to TX to drive the POS if you wanna.

lol ... if i had a week off i would drive down to TX

I've told him before to drop if off here and let me get it running... :p

Im willin to bet if I let you get Belen goin right, you'd private sell the G35, and Id never see (or is it recognize? ) the car again.

well if i could help if i had a room to stay, for tms or somethen lol !!!

Why sell the G35 when I could have two toys for the road... :p

I'd only keep Belen if I put my engine in the bay and not one of yours.

just got done running her to a town (village, really) thats kinda near here. It's an hour away. Man, she is one gutless flippin mule! My foot was nailed to the floor for about 2 (total) hours HOPIN to maintain anywhere between 70-85. 75 and below isnt too hard for OD to maintain, but it can be interesting with the random switches between OD and kick-down. Acceleration is SLIGHTLY improving [or am I developing Stockholm Syndrome with this car?]

The bummer: the engine paint was cookin, I toasted #3 plug boot, the car wasnt burning all the fuel she was pumping, and I have an exhaust leak on the #1 DP. Those 2 hours are CERTAINLY takin their toll on me right now. Pics after dinner.

some of it seems like an easy fix, some not , i would love to see pics

Since Im leavin here in less than a week, Im not too concerned with hiding my location hints.

Yes, my motor pool involves 3 houses:


stable mates once again:


can anyone chop this into a decent sig, or should I take them out to the airstrip?:


the gutless wonder from #2 side;


from #1 side:

gosh i really want one now, i think you should let me have it lol looks really good

ifn you pay me the nearly 7 grand Ive spent on it now...its yours. Otherwise I'll let you have a picture or two. Hey, I'll even make the pictures available to you at no cost. You just pay a low shipping and handling fee of $29.95...

Thanks for the props on Belen, I sure appreciate it.

7 g's wow.... thats like rape, i think it could use a nice new black paint job !!! so the hole thing pops !!

wanna switch it to the OE maroon or crimson or whatever color red it was.

the break down is as such:
$1,000 car
$1,500 tranny
$2,500 engine
$1,000 other expenses
$1,000 unaccounted for (like the T/A rims)

thats alot for motor and tranny shoulda just got a junkyard v8 and tranny

read previous posts. Im kickin myself for not doin so. Theres one guy thats willin to sell me a LT1 with tranny for about 4300 USD. Or I can find junked drivetrains and slowly build them. While continuing to tune this thing back to OE.

hey its all a learning exp.

yep. Thats what I keep tellin myself. oh, well, Im only 29. Im still yet to start my muscle car years, anyway. Hopefully by the time I start my mid-life crisis, I dont hafta go buy a car, I just take Belen for a drive.

Rick,

I've said it before... Just drop it off in my driveway on your way through.

Rick, have you replaced the UIM yet, or still JB-weld together? A small vacume leak like that might be causing your issues...

The bird is like an abused dog, you have to gain its trust before it starts acting like you want it to. From the old engine pics, shes had a rough life

Matter of fact, I just got back:


from doing the UIM, front brakes (including hub repack), and front brake bleed.

I have no idea why yall are screamin the acclaims of F-Body brakes. Has anyone actually WORKED on those brakes? WTF were they thinkin? The bleeder valve points towards the spindle. Whyyyy?

The UIM woulda been alot quicker had I realized that instead of unplugging everything, I coulda removed the air intake and took the throttle body off, thus taking a whole buncha stuff with it.

Im also thinkin that the #1 DP leak that Ive got is contributing to the vacuum leak issue. These small engines sure are picky, after all.

One thing for sure: the car does wanna stop now. I have VERY limited improvement in performance after replacing the UIM. But the improvement is there.