Hi Rick,

Since the car does eventually start and run, but seems to have a hard time doing so (and runs like crap), here's some things I would check, based on past experience:

1. Verify that the yellow Check Engine light works when you turn the key on; should look like an engine outline on the dash, iirc. A burnt out bulb, missing bulb & socket, or bad lamp driver module is like unplugging the ECM...the car will be hard starting, and the idle will be erratic.

2. Remove the fuel filter, and empty it into a clean plastic container. If there's dirt in the fuel, or the filter feels heavy, replace the filter. A restricted filter will weaken/damage the fuel pump. A fuel pressure test should also be done. Should be 30-44 PSI. Might have a bad Cold Start Valve or pressure regulator as well.

3. Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor..is it shiny brass, and sitting in anti-freeze? If not, that can cause hard starting and poor performance. As an aside, I wouldn't trust any engine sensors on a 23 year old car.

4. Check the Ignition Timing , and verify it's set to spec.

5. Check the Catalytic Converter- I have a '79 Olds 98 LS (350 4 bbl carb), which had the original cat and approx 160,000 miles. Ran fine on the highway until you reached a hill, then the speed dropped down to 40 mph, with your foot to the floor.. Replaced it with a new one, and the car now runs like a V8 should. Would run even better with a 455 & dual exhaust of course, but still.. Heck, even my GP runs much better after installing that Magnaflow downpipe & cat. Then again, the OEM cat was a bad design when new..

BlackArrow, you have gots ta be the single greatest car hero out there. Im seriously thinkin about having the car hauled up here to my house before I move. If so, those will be checked. If not, I'll check those when I get settled in. Thanks for the checklist, dude. I REALLY appreciate it.

BTW: how'd you get the info? I've been lookin for the last year for info just like that.

Actually, I left the link for you on page 7 of this thread, and if you do some navigating on that site, you'll find things like the Firing Orders as well. Incidentally, it's kinda hard to mess up 1-2-3-4-5-6, and if your mechanic did that, you need a new one..

so, uh, when you moving to Texas, then?

What I do remember is that the SES light turned on when key turned to On. The light came back on when she decided not to start or when she stalled during warm-up. Also, the idle was glass-smooth.

EDIT: The SES remained off the whole time the car was running.

The rebuild guy SHOULDA replaced the fuel filter, but we see how reliable that [dirtbag] turned out to be.

The ECT: I have no doubt that that is bad. Like I said, all these checks will be done as soon as I can get to them.

Thanks again, man.

Have you tried to read any codes on the computer, they are alil tricky on an OBD-1 computer like that. Have to jump two leads and you will see the check engine light flashing, count the flashes...


For GM domestic vehicles made before 1995, the diagnostic connector is located under the dash panel by the driver side. To get the check engine codes to flash in your dash panel, use a jumper wire or a paper clip and connect terminals A and B of the diagnostic connector. Turn your ignition key on with engine off and the codes should start to blink. All codes should start with code 12 which is one long flash followed by 2 short flashes. This code 12 means the diagnostic system is normal and will repeat itself continuously if there are no trouble codes. Otherwise, code 12 will flash 3 times before flashing the fault codes.

The SES light coming on when the car stalls is normal, because the ignition key is on, with the engine off. If it comes on while running you've got codes, which you can retrieve with a paper clip. Find the ALDL connector under the dash, jump terminals A & B (refer to the Ignition Timing link), turn the key on, and count the SES flashes, like Morse code. Each code should flash 3 times starting & ending with Code 12 (normal, means key on engine off). Or you can get it scanned at Auto Zone...
The engine should run with a fast idle & lower itself when warm (no stalling), if the ECT sensor & other sensors are working properly.
Your PM box is full, by the way..

oh, damn, lemme clear that out. thanks.

ok. cleared out the PM box.

Autozone will not read a OBD1 computer.

nope, but they will find a paper clip and read the dash.

Rick, just drop the car off at my place on your way to hicktown...

Although, it might be more at home on blocks in the middle of redneck country.

the more you say that, the more tempting it becomes.

all Im missing now is a mullet and Member's Only jacket. Oh, and the Wayfarers. Cant forget the Wayfarers.

2bad you wernt closer to me ... i could read all codes for you and i could help you out with your motor/wiring problems it seems thats one thing that im fairly good at is wiring stuff up.

Andrew, the 'Bird isnt throwing any codes. it's just gutless and hard to start when cold.