Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#211636 - 05/16/05 07:54 AM Re: GXP Review
Jizz Offline
Member
Registered: 03/22/04
Posts: 766
Loc: Central Maryland
Ok - What car is making over 300hp and less displacement?

Ok lets use the Acura RL - it has 300hp and gets 18/26 BUT only has 260tq.

The GP has 300hp get the same milage but has 323tq - Hum.....

I understand your theory on the "power per liter" but usually the gas milage is around the same and I like the V8 sound a lot better. Also the 5.3L enginge is way down in its potential where as Acura's 3.5L is running near the edge of potential.

Power does not only come in "horses" is also comes in Torque laugh
_________________________
S's? Oh it has SS's!!!
Top
#211637 - 05/17/05 12:26 PM Re: GXP Review
TastyBake Offline
Member
Registered: 07/29/04
Posts: 1560
Loc: Ohio
Again, I acknowledged that the first post regarding 300 HP was over generalized and I did that in haste. The point was competitors are making more horsepower and MPG with smaller engines which I really wish we did. Not particularly 300HP. See the Mustang vs GXP comparison engine comparison.

True, by the laws of physics, more displacement usually means more torque. I prefer more torque over HP.

After reading the comments, one thing I noticed was true.

Am I still impressed with the numbers of this 5.3L engine?
Not at all. But hey, maybe its not designed to be super high performance engine. Just something smooth running and underrated. If its supposed to be high performance, then I’m disappointed. frown

Do I think it has great potential to increase HP/TQ?
If the components are strong enough to take it, Absolutely. Since it is 5.3L, a S/C and other strong mods could push it to 400HP+ where it belongs. If so, Intenses’s Bonneville FWD record is in great jeopardy.
_________________________


GenV, 12" Brakes, CAI, 3" DP with HighFlo Cat, 180 T-Stat, Sylvania Silverstars, Aeroforce Gauge, Front STB, Stinger Fiberglass hood, Reflective Graphics.
Top
#211638 - 05/17/05 02:19 PM Re: GXP Review
rayainsw Offline
Member
Registered: 08/01/02
Posts: 51
Loc: atlanta
Well, where to start???

First, I have no problem with you looking at whatever aspects of a potential car purchase you want to look at. Utilize whatever metric(s) you desire to help you decide. And I do not dispute your numbers.

I am just surprised to see a focus on one metric, to the (apparent) exclusion of all others.

0.5 – I like Torque. Great, steaming piles of (relatively) low speed torque. My bias. For me, this makes a car more enjoyable in the vast majority of my driving, where I cannot (legally and / or responsibly) explore very high speeds or handling limits. The feeling of effortless acceleration is something I can enjoy during much of my driving.

1 – HP / Liter of displacement is one measure of raw efficiency, I suppose. I think that HP / weight of motor might be another of potential interest here. With the LS4 weighing slightly less than the L67 S/C 3800, and developing an additional 43 HP and 43 TQ, it is certainly ‘better’, by this measure. And it produces EPA estimates (17 / 28) that are essentially the same as the CompG. I consider that a significant accomplishment.

2 – Another measure could be 0 – 60 & Quarter mile acceleration related to EPA fuel mileage estimates.

3 – One could also argue that a relatively low stressed V8 likely makes for less engine wear and tear, and better longevity, all other factors being roughly equal – or at least comparable.

4 – The Honda S2000 (now enlarged to 2.2L) still has a VERY high specific HP / Liter = 240 HP / 2.2L = 109!! But I found it not much fun (the 1 time I drove one, a2 liter version, some years ago) from an acceleration standpoint – at least at anything less than WOT and v. high rpm, as it made little torque low down – and really had to be revved to produce any acceleration. (TQ = 162 at [wait for it . .] 6,500 rpm!!) Yikes. Although sometimes that sort of driving can certainly be fun, I know that I would find that tedious as a steady diet. [[ And yes, it did handle very well. It was very agile. ]]

The Lacrosse 3.6L / 240 HP motor you mention only produces 225 LB/FT of torque. Personally, if I am only going to have 240 HP, I’d much rather have the 3.8L S/C torque of 280. But that’s just me. With a 3640 test weight, the Lacrosse Motor Trend tested produced (um) a rather uninspiring 0 – 60: 8.0 and a Quarter mile of 15.8 at 90.7. EPA estimates: 19 / 28.

Then there is the Honda Accord V6 Hybrid. I expect that there will be many more such vehicles in the future. A V6 – plus an electric motor (and batteries) to achieve decent acceleration – and exceptional fuel economy, given that acceleration. The only published test I can find at the moment is from C+D. The reported 0 – 60 at 6.7 and the Quarter at 15.2 at 93 mph. Not far off the GP CompG numbers C+D reported for an ’04. Yet with EPA City / Highway numbers of 30 / 37. Better even than the 4 cylinder Accord. What metric(s) would be appropriate to apply here?

Anyway. There are certainly a bunch of other data one could consider and weigh.

The numbers and (p)reviews I have seen suggest that the GXP will be fun to drive. That is one overriding consideration for me.

I am waiting to test drive one before making any further judgements.

- Ray
Almost resigned to driving 250 miles on Saturday to test drive one . .
Top
#211639 - 05/17/05 04:36 PM Re: GXP Review
why2kmax Offline
Member
Registered: 05/01/03
Posts: 589
Loc: Bel Air Maryland
I drove one at the GM autoshow in motion, the car has a LOT of torque, which IMO is where the fun is. It handles great. Driven side by side with the comp G, the GXP is hands down the winner in ALL categories. The Comp G feels weak by comparison.

The airbox on the V8 looks smaller than the v6 GTP and the TB looked a LOT smaller but that might be because the MAF was combined in the older cars. I forgot where the MAF was on the V8 but thought if they open that thing up its going to HAUL. However Id bet its going to also be pretty well torque managed to save the tranny which means it wont be as fast as it should be but will have great potential.

A weakness I wish Gm would fix is their penchant for putting in transmissions and drivelines that just barely handle what comes from the factory and then fudging in a saftey margin with PCM schenanegans.

both the M6 and A4 GTO LS2 is like this. frown
_________________________
2000 GTP Coupe traded for a 2004 GTO
Top
#211640 - 05/19/05 09:18 AM Re: GXP Review
rayainsw Offline
Member
Registered: 08/01/02
Posts: 51
Loc: atlanta
Executive Summary: I like it. A lot. I want one. I may buy this one - as early as this weekend.

Background / Context: I currently drive a 2003 Lincoln LS V8 Sport. 5-speed automatic with TAP Shift-like manumatic function. RWD. 3.9L - 280 HP / 286 TQ and weight around 3800. Previous 2 cars were AWD and RWD. One reason I really wanted to drive the GXP is that I have not driven a FWD performance car in several years . .

I am looking for a new replacement that is:

0.5 - Fun to drive. Entertaining

1 - Sedan – for occasional 1 or 2 additional passengers and better visibility than most “sports cars”.

2 – Manumatic.

3 – Comfortable.

4 – Reasonable cruising range.

5 – Reasonably priced.

6+ . . A few other desirable but negotiable features . .

I have been looking for a GXP available to drive close to Atlanta since the official release. Closest one to me as of last night (actually at a dealer lot, not in transit) was in Augusta – over 100 miles away.

So, since it was equipped close to what I’d order, I decided to contact their Internet Guy and drove down yesterday PM for a test.

Car: Graystone. Leather / Suede (PCH). Premium Audio (PVJ). Sunroof (CF5). XM (U2K). Auto Dual Zone A/C (CJ2). Remote Start (AP3). List: $33K even. Invoice: $30,178. . .

I arrived at the Dealer (Master) after 2+ hours on the road at just after 4:30 PM yesterday afternoon. The sales guy (OK guy, overall – for a sales guy) and I crawled all over it inside and out. I took a few pictures.

I had asked that the car be closed up and not run for a while, if possible, to test the A/C. It was sunny and 80+ degrees – and the inside of the car was hot. Precisely as I wanted. To test the A/C cooldown. I asked the sales guy to start it, and headed back to put my digital camera back in my car.

When he fired it up, the exhaust bark and burble stopped my in my tracks. “Now that sounds good!”

At this point (sadly) it was about 5 o’clock. And Augusta has lots of traffic. (sigh) But I did drive it for about 20 minutes. Since I must currently spend some significant time slogging through HotLanta traffic, this was actually a useful exercise. And I did have about 5 minutes of freeway run, at 65 – 75 mph.

Impressions of:

Car appearance / Exterior – The Graystone metallic paint is impressive in depth. Looks well applied. Pity they will not have this color for 2006. Styling changes vs CompG suit me very well. The wheels and tires and wheel / fender well gap work OK for me. Exterior = acceptable.

Interior – Every aspect of the driving environment also works well for me. I had expressed concern regarding headroom earlier on this forum, based on a couple of minutes trying to find a comfortable position in a CompG with sunroof. At 6’-0”, I was struggling to achieve a position that would allow easy TAP Shift access and still allow me enough headroom for comfort. This time, I was able to adjust things reasonably quickly. No issue. Everything works well, ergonomically, for me. Controls are acceptable in placement and feel. The HUD with gear position is a very nice touch. The seats (as well as I can judge in such a brief drive) seemed like they would be supportive and comfortable for my typical driving. Interior = acceptable.

I drove only with the radio off, the sunroof at vent (sunscreen open only an inch or so), but not retracted back – and one rear window open an inch or so. With the exception of the radio, this is typically how I drive year round, preferring fresh air with heat or A/C adjusted to comfort. I wanted to focus on the car, not the stereo. The A/C did cool the interior well – and the suede inserts felt fine, probably preferable for me compared to all leather.

Driving – By far, my 2 most acute & lasting impressions are of the exhaust and the Torque. I will try not to repeat too much of what has been posted here before. The exhaust is just perfect for me. I have no interest in setting off my neighbors’ car alarms when I start it up in my garage early on workday mornings. The GXP’s V8 rumble and heterodyne “beat” were always there during my around town driving (0 – 45 / 50) and is just lovely. Perfect. No need for me to address this with aftermarket equipment. For a daily (every day) driver, I would not want it any louder. I prefer to clearly hear V8 exhaust, but little or no mechanical, engine ‘thrash’. No other extraneous noises noted. Check.

The Torque is always there, and provides just the sort of effortless acceleration I am looking for. Check.

Driving = (more than) acceptable.

Ride – My impression is that the ride is not much different than my Lincoln. My LS has 50 series Michelins and a relatively aggressive tuning of dampers, springs and bushings. (OK, very aggressive, for a Lincoln!) And the GXP was much the same. Always well damped and composed, aware of the surface and what the wheels were doing, but not intrusively so. The harshness was within acceptable limits. Really only noticeable when encountering broken pavement or concrete slab expansion joints / seams. Ride = acceptable.

Handling – Due to conditions, I was not able to give this aspect much of a workout. Ultimate cornering Gs are something I do not attempt to explore with a dealer sales guy in the right seat anyway. I trust other reports that indicate it will be fine for me.

Brakes – Again, I was not even interested in probing their limits here. I believe that they will work great. In typical conditions, they were smooth and intuitive.

Acceleration – Oh, boy. With the constant background accompaniment of the bass exhaust, there was plenty of acceleration for any situation I can envision. I expect that some will “need” another 50 or more HP. For me, for now, 303 / 323 (in a 3600 pound car) will do nicely, thank you. I did not run this green engine (arrived on their lot a couple of days ago) hard. I do not think I exceeded 4,500 RPM. I did run WOT – a lot. Just not high RPM. I may buy this particular example. And I certainly was able to make smooth, quick progress without resorting to high RPM.

I experienced no torque steer in turning and accelerating at moderate (say 35 – 75%) throttle on dry pavement. I did not try full throttle while turning at low speed. And there was no opportunity to evaluate behavior on low friction surfaces.

TAP Shift – This feature worked much better than I remember in the early 2004 CompG I test drove. Trans. shifts up and down were generally well managed – most noticeable aspect was the RPM rise / drop. Shifts were quick and firm but not harsh.

I do have one question here. The only “anomaly” I noticed in my drive was an odd behavior on the highway portion. At 60 or so I have an opportunity to floor the throttle in M / 4. The expected TCC unlock and RPM rise smoothly occurred. Then, after a couple of seconds, the TCC locked – RPM dropped – and a few seconds later the TCC unlocked again. My foot was flat on the floor through it all (maybe 10 seconds?). Smooth enough, but very odd. Anyone else see anything like this??? I would not expect the TCC to lock again until I backed out of the throttle. . .

Steering – Precise, poised, relaxed, stable. In all my 20 minutes or so of driving, my sense was that the all the various aspects of the chasses dynamics worked in harmony. This seems like a car I could enjoy even when stuck in traffic or driving (as I sometimes do) 6+ hours at a time.

Visibility – The rear view mirrors are well placed and sized to allow confident monitoring of traffic.

Do I sound like a commercial? Sorry. I am very impressed with the thought and effort and development that clearly went into this GXP. A car with no significant flaws (for me) – at a base price of $30K. Remarkable.

Radio / XM – After we returned from the drive, I asked for a “tour” of the radio, particularly XM, as I was not very familiar with it. (I also wanted to continue sitting in the seat – to help me judge longer term comfort and support. I was impressed with several aspects of the XM system. A couple that stood out – constant traffic & weather reports for major metro areas. One annoyance with trying to obtain traffic info in my driving around Atlanta is that even severe tie-ups are typically reported only once every 10 minutes or so. And only during ‘rush hours’. This particular feature may help me at times. Also – they broadcast all Major League Baseball games – and have the ability to (for instance) display the score and inning info. on the radio screen. Pretty cool stuff. And overall, probably worth the subscription cost for me.

One small correction / clarification: The Window Sticker shows EPA = 18 / 27 (brochure shows 17 / 28 - odd?)


I have not had a GM car since my ’97 GTP. Unless something completely unexpected happens, it looks like this will be my next one.

Cheers,
- Ray
Ready to negotiate . . .
Top
#211641 - 06/02/05 03:42 PM Re: GXP Review
framos242 Offline
Member
Registered: 07/15/04
Posts: 3141
Loc: Chicago, IL
So does this mean that there will be a GXP in your driveway???

Sounds like it. If so, do it now with the GM Employee rate.
_________________________
DHP V1.0, Slotted rotors, S/S Brake Lines, Custom CAI, GMPP Handling Kit, KYB's, Jimmy C DP (U-Bend delete w/ Hi-flow cat), Flowmaster Super 40's, drilled 180° T-Stat, Alt. Rewire & Alt. Voltage Booster Combo, 605's, ZZP Motor Mounts

"The only difference between me and a madman is that I am NOT mad!" - Dali
Top
#211642 - 06/02/05 06:14 PM Re: GXP Review
AustinGTP Offline
Member
Registered: 05/23/03
Posts: 8077
Loc: Austin, TX
Nice post, Ray.
I'm now wanting to take a trip to my local Pontiac dealership and take one for a test drive.
IF, which I'm not, but if I were to get one, the first thing I would have to do is put a set of Flowmasters on it. I gotta hear that V8 behind a set of 40's, unresonated.
_________________________
Bobby

Died 5/1/08, resurrected 5/15/08
ASCD SD hood, 17" Bullitts, Overkill PCM, 3.4" Pulley, NGK TR55IX, K&N 9" cone filter, JimmyC D/P, U-bend removed, Flowmaster 40 series, Hooker big bore tips with resonators, S/B brake lines, drilled/slot rotors, GMPP handling kit, KYB struts, F&R strut supports, HID's, LED's, 2.5" Air Dam, red GTP overlays on custom badges, white rear insert.
Top
#211643 - 06/03/05 08:25 AM Re: GXP Review
rayainsw Offline
Member
Registered: 08/01/02
Posts: 51
Loc: atlanta
Quote:
Originally posted by framos242:
So does this mean that there will be a GXP in your driveway???

Sounds like it. If so, do it now with the GM Employee rate.
That is the plan.
If an agreement can be reached regarding my trade, I will buy one before the 'GMS for all' program ends.
- Ray
Trying to be patient . . .
Top
#211644 - 06/03/05 08:33 AM Re: GXP Review
rayainsw Offline
Member
Registered: 08/01/02
Posts: 51
Loc: atlanta
Quote:
Originally posted by Austin G T P:
. . if I were to get one, the first thing I would have to do is put a set of Flowmasters on it. I gotta hear that V8 behind a set of 40's, unresonated.
When you drive one, please do post your impressions of the exhaust. Thanks!

I know some people want really LOUD exhaust. For me, as I posted above, the GXP exhaust is “just lovely. Perfect. No need for me to address this with aftermarket equipment. For a daily (every day) driver, I would not want it any louder. I prefer to clearly hear V8 exhaust, but little or no mechanical, engine ‘thrash’. “

I was quite pleasantly surprised – and likely would not change the stock system.

I’d know better after living with it for a little while, but I expect that I would not want it any louder. And neither would my neighbors . .

- Ray
Preferring burble to **** BURBLE ***
Top
#211645 - 06/03/05 02:40 PM Re: GXP Review
AustinGTP Offline
Member
Registered: 05/23/03
Posts: 8077
Loc: Austin, TX
I went to the dealership to try and test drive one. They don't have any in the Austin area. He said there are about 6 or 7 in the DFW area and he can get one down here and have me in it on Monday. After already telling him about 4 times that I was not interested in buying one, only in see/hearing one, I once again told him I was not looking to buy one.
He said there is a guy here in Austin that is buying one as soon as he can decide on the color. When he decides, and they get it here, they'll call me so I can come down and take a look at it.

I hate car salesmen. Of course the first thing he wanted to know was "What's it going to take to get you in one?". I told him it will take 2 things, if you can handle the second, the first one will be a breeze.
1) You have to be able to get me out of my current car... that white GTP out there.
2) You have to produce a 2 door GP/GXP.
He starts telling me how "it could happen.."
I'm thinking, "oh yeah... how when they are going to end the production of the GP, real soon, or maybe they already have?".
Morons...
I doubt he'll even call be back.
_________________________
Bobby

Died 5/1/08, resurrected 5/15/08
ASCD SD hood, 17" Bullitts, Overkill PCM, 3.4" Pulley, NGK TR55IX, K&N 9" cone filter, JimmyC D/P, U-bend removed, Flowmaster 40 series, Hooker big bore tips with resonators, S/B brake lines, drilled/slot rotors, GMPP handling kit, KYB struts, F&R strut supports, HID's, LED's, 2.5" Air Dam, red GTP overlays on custom badges, white rear insert.
Top
#211646 - 06/03/05 02:51 PM Re: GXP Review
BrianR Offline
Junior Member
Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 6
Loc: Austin, TX
I've just come back to the list from a few years break. I just traded my 97 GTP for a new Greystone Metallic GXP and love it. Just a little sad since my 97 was still in great shape and ran well.

First, the V8 sounds good from inside at low rpms when accelerating. Cruising on the highway, it's quiet not like my 97 with Flowmasters and the droning. To me is sounds like a Mustang. Haven't let anyone drive it so I don't know what it sounds like from the outside except for remote start (I can't find the throttle linkage under the hood to rev it).

Austin GTP: You probable went to the same dealership I did and I might be the guy waiting to figure out what color. They don't know anything about the GXP and since they don't have one, no one will trade and they put me off for days trying to get one. When I first when in, they said they could get one for MSRP, but I used GMBuypower and got invoice quotes which they matched. I just drove my 97 to Dallas (they guaranteed a trade in value without seeing it) and drove back in my GXP. After that, they called saying the color I wanted was bought (yea by me, those idiots).

If you want to see it, we may be able to meet up.
Top
#211647 - 06/03/05 04:08 PM Re: GXP Review
rayainsw Offline
Member
Registered: 08/01/02
Posts: 51
Loc: atlanta
"(I can't find the throttle linkage under the hood to rev it)."

I don't think you will find a traditional 'linkage' - I believe that at least on the GXP, it is now an electronic linkage.
- Ray
Not an automotive engineer, but . . .
Top
#211648 - 06/03/05 06:11 PM Re: GXP Review
AustinGTP Offline
Member
Registered: 05/23/03
Posts: 8077
Loc: Austin, TX
Hey Brian, I went to the dealer on 183 at Lamar, Champion I think. The guy I talked to was an idiot. I told him I wanted to check out a GXP, so he took me over to the Bonneville's and said.. "that's what you want!", I said "no it's not... I want to see the Grand Prix, not the Bonneville."
I just might have to take you up on your offer. I really want to check one out, if anything just to hear it. I'm going to be a bit tied up tomorrow, it's the little princess' birthday party. I may not be too busy on Sun if you're available.
What part of town are you in?
I'm at Parmer & Mopac.
_________________________
Bobby

Died 5/1/08, resurrected 5/15/08
ASCD SD hood, 17" Bullitts, Overkill PCM, 3.4" Pulley, NGK TR55IX, K&N 9" cone filter, JimmyC D/P, U-bend removed, Flowmaster 40 series, Hooker big bore tips with resonators, S/B brake lines, drilled/slot rotors, GMPP handling kit, KYB struts, F&R strut supports, HID's, LED's, 2.5" Air Dam, red GTP overlays on custom badges, white rear insert.
Top
#211649 - 06/04/05 09:57 AM Re: GXP Review
BrianR Offline
Junior Member
Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 6
Loc: Austin, TX
I sent an email to you Excite account.
Top
#211650 - 06/08/05 04:23 PM Re: GXP Review
BrianR Offline
Junior Member
Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 6
Loc: Austin, TX
Anyone with another GXP (or any technical background):

I have the remote and auto dual zone. The manual states that after remote starting the system will cool or heat depending upon what I set last. I had an aftermarket and this basically turned on all accessory power so if I left the AC in max it would come on.

Now, when I remote start, no accessory power comes on, but the fans do blow but not very cold air. The radio and dual climate temps do not come on. Does anyone else have this problem or is it designed not to fully use the AC? I haven't tried setting the controls to auto, but have left them in manual.

Also, I get static from the monsoon speakers when the radio is off or muted and also when I open the doors to get in the car (after ~10 secs, it stops). A sound person said the amps aren't turning off and picking up interference. Anyone else have this? It's really faint so the only time I hear it if it's quiet outside.

Thanks
Top
Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >



Moderator:  AustinGTP, Marc Harbison, Redshift