I also posted this on FaceBook, but I wanna get a bunch of folks to give their opinions.

Before we get started: if you're anti-firearm, STFU and keep moving. This is NOT a political debate. This is a research thread. I like weapons, my wife likes weapons, my kids are interested in weapons, and the Second Amendment allows ownership and use of weapons. That simple.

Now then, I got a wild hair today and decided to chat with CheaperThanDirt.Com and asked them about good starter weapons. My kids are 7 and 5 and I want to take them out to start shooting when my oldest turns 10. I asked about rifles, handguns, and revolvers. These are what they suggested to me:


.22LR Keystone Arms Chipmunk Rifle


.22LR Walther P22 Semi-Auto


.22LR Taurus Model 94 Revolver

Now...let us begin!

Can't go wrong with the Ruger 10/22 for a beginner rifle. Its very reliable and very customizable, when time permits. I recently installed a .920 barrel on my 10/22. I can shot a 1 hole pattern at 50 yards and a dime size pattern at 100 yards.
And I too enjoy owning and shooting firearms, they're so much fun!

A few things I've learned from taking people shooting their first time... Handguns are horrible to start someone on who has not learned the concept of muzzle discipline. Even if you tell them, it takes a while before they're conscious of it. Autos even more so, cause people can't seem to understand that the slide moves back and it's going to hurt if you put something behind it like a thumb and shoot.

Ok, any decent 22lr rifle is going to be awesome. I had my grandfathers old Remington bolt action for a while until I got my own 10/22. 10/22's can grow with the kids and they're just plain good. I've never owned a CZ but I've heard nothing but good things. I'd consider buying them if you want a quality boltaction 22. However, the only .22 I love and will never part with is a Nylon 66. Not something I'd get for kids to beat on though.

The only reason I don't want to go with a CZ is because of how short the slide is. That'd be a horrible way to teach the kids about getting chamber locked. I'm certainly going to look into the Ruger 10/22. I've also heard a lot of good things about them. Herc had recommended start teaching them now on a BB gun and am actually considering that.

Thanks, fellas. I sure do appreciate the input. Keep it coming!

For starters i'd recommend a Ruger 10/22 or a GSG 1911 chambered in .22. I've shot both and love both. Very accurate shooters! I also have my eye on the S&W MP15-22.

The P22 is another great option. I've never shot one, but i've held one and didn't like it for the fact that it was too small for my hands/grip.

I work for Gander Mountain so I'm around these guns all day. I've sold more Ruger 10/22's and the Walther P22's then you can imagine.

The Ruger's have gone up a bit in price from what they used to be, but are still excellent guns. You might want to look into the Marlin 795. They are an excellent gun, and pretty cheap. I think that if you go with the cricket, you'll soon wish you would have bought something more than a single shot.

The P22 is a great starter gun, mainly because the tension in the slide is minimal compared to other hand guns that can make it difficult to load the chamber. My other recommendation for something like this would be the Sig Mosquito
http://www.centerfireguns.com/sig-sauer-mosquito-22-lr-mos22rt.html

I would stray away from revolvers personally, they are simple, but generally are not as easy to shoot for first timers.

Good luck in your search, and if you have any other questions feel free to ask.

Im thinking of getting myself an AR for a retirement present to myself what should i look for and what makes should i avoid. Im looking to keep it under $1500

For a pre-built AR, I'd definitely look into the Smith and Wesson M&P 15. At Gander we ran some deals on those rifles with an EO Tech holographic sight on them for just under $1500. Never had any come back into the gunsmith with problems.

Another kind of new on the market AR is the Ruger SR-556. It comes with a Troy fore arm already installed. Makes for a good sturdy rifle and shoots awesome.

If you're going to build your own, Look into rock river uppers and lowers, from what I've seen they hold up well.

The only one that I would suggest to stay away from is the Bushmaster Carbon-15. It's an economy line AR. It'll function like it needs to, but it handles weird, and feels like a toy basically. It's a polycarb upper in a sense.

Herc, when you get into ARs you've got a lot of stuff to think about. With a budget like that you can have almost anything depending on the method you take to get it (buying a prebuilt or building one). With most ARs you pay for the name.

Are you wanting an M4 build? A full 20incher? A lightweight CAR? Many paths, figure out what you want and go from there. Also, when it comes to building an AR, almost every single lower is identical for a typical build. The only exception being Colt. So, don't look at the name on the receiver as a mark of whether it quality or not. Stag is a cheap brand that's been around a while but they're not bad at all. My AR uses a DPMS lower. There are exceptions to every rule, but you get the picture.

I want a pre built. im looking for something that will be accuate and fun to shoot.

Any AR is accurate (inherent to design), the ones with free-floating rails even more so. You should just walk into a store and look through their selection until you find something you like.

tell ya what, Herc, I'll hook you up with a joe of mine in my unit. He builds some AMAZING weapons. I shot a couple and am very likely to have him build a lower receiver and probably couple the barrel and upper together for me. For a basic M4 build, he's likely to charge abnout $500-$750. The only thing that must be signed for from a FFL dealer is the Lower.

Fun to shoot? Even his 6.8mm was a dream to fire. He built a 7.62 SKS using a BUNCH of M4 parts and stuff and it was incredibly smooth and well-mannered. Both of those weapons were able to drive a matchstick at 100+ meters.

Herc, I highly recommend building one. You'll take away more pride knowing you built it the way you want. It's not hard at all. With a $1500 budget, that's enough to go any route you want.

To add to what Rook said, I think there's only 3 companies that actually manufacture the lowers. Then they're sent to RRA, BCM, Noveske, Spike, etc. and just get a roll stamp engraving.

The only thing that I actually bought 'complete' was the upper receiver. I bought most of my parts from Bravo Company. Main items that you don't want to skimp on quality is the type of barrel and bolt carrier group (BCG). Lower parts kit (LPK) is your choosing. I have G&R tactical LPK, in which he picks all the best quality parts from the main manufactures and puts them together in one complete kit (about $80). It works fine for me, but you can spend up to $300 on a 3 lb. Timney stage trigger.

I'll leave you with some literature:
http://forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?81462-So-you-want-to-buy-an-AR-15-huh

Here's some of my own work (Write-up). I saved this when I was helping a buddy build one of his own:

Just to let you know, the rails do not come cheap. You can pay about $100 for some sub par ones. You'll find good ones in the $200-$300+ range. Plus these rails will be made of aluminum or steel, so they will add a good bit of weight.

The only other handguards that i'd recommend on the cheap are the Magpul MOE Handguards, which can be found on their website. The Guards run at about $35 and then you'll have to purchase the rails for another $6-$9 per rail. Plus they're polymer, like a glock, so it will save a bunch on the weight issue. I've never personally held one but I know guys on the forum that LOVE them. If I was doing a lightweight build, I would probably take a shot at those MOE guards.

Ok, you'll have to figure out if you want a Mid-Length AKA 'Middy' (16" barrel+flash suppressor=17"-18"; and you can swap the stock A2 flash suppressor with another type/brand by screwing on and off) OR do you want the M4 style which the barrel length is 14.5" plus the flash suppressor WELDED on (therefore you can't swap easily) to reach a total length of 16".

By law, you can't own a rifle under a total barrel length of 16" unless you fill out some paperwork and pay a $200 tax for a 'SBR'/Short Barrelled Rifle stamp.

I bought my upper reciever complete because I figured i'm not really saving a whole lot on that part. The only thing I swapped on my upper was the dust cover and I plan on changing my flash hider to a Vortex soon. BCM, Noveske and Spikes Tactical offer great complete uppers.

Personally, I prefer the Mid-Length. There have been tests done that are found on the internet that show the Middy is more efficent on the internal componets of the rifle. Meaning, a Middy will last you longer before you have to replace parts. How much longer? Well a barrel will last close to 20,000 rounds before you actually notice any accuracy issues in either rifle. But, the BCG will probably fail before then and tests show that it fails faster in the M4 style.

Middy's are just a tad bit more accurate given the extra length. Also the easy swap of the flash suppressor, which I also prefer the Yankee Hill 5C2 comp or the Smith Enterprise Vortex flash hider. Unless I was actually using the rifle as a SHTF/tactical killing machine, in which I would pay the tax for a 12.5" barrel, i'd go with a Middy.

It's kinda the same for the lower reciever as to whether you'll want to build. You can buy complete or incomplete lowers. This time I decided to build my lower. The trigger group is one of the most important factors in shooting so that's why I decided to build. There are plenty of different sytles to choose from, including different stages of triggers. Some are very light like a Timney trigger (less than 3lbs of pulling force), that could run you close to $300.

One day i'd like to try one of those, but for now I settle for a custom setup, in which the guy/website I bought it from takes the quality components from different brands and puts them togethter. I think my trigger group costs me about $80, which it's a great setup, very crisp and i'm accurate with it. I think my dad installed a Rock River Arms stage 2 setup in his before he passed away. I don't believe I have shot his setup yet.

Installing the trigger group is very simple as I just followed a couple videos from YouTube. With the right tools and having all the parts, it might take you about an hour to complete.

Here's the starting point on what you need to decide on the upper and lower reciever standpoint of things. Some of the parts like BCG, Stock, Grip, are your choices, but i'll give you some recommendations later if you want.

BASIC AR-15 SETUP:

Upper Assembly:
BCM BFH 16" Middy Complete Upper w/o handguards - $489
Magpul MOE Handguards - $35
Magpul MOE Rails - $15 to $25
BCM Charging Handle - $45
BCM BCG (Auto) - $140
Troy Industries BUIS (Back-up iron sight) - $120 (You can find cheaper, this is just what I run with)

Approx. $849 in upper

Lower Assembly:
Spikes Tactical Stripped Lower - $99 (This part brings a wide range in the money aspect. I have a Yankee Hill Machined lower that ran me about $140. I hear Spikes has some nice quality products, so for a budget build it's not a bad choice.)
G&R Tactical LPK; Lower Parts Kit (Trigger assembly w/ Magpul MOE trigger guard) - $94
Basic Pistol Grip - $4 (Easy upgradable part, I went with a Houge grip for $18, but you'll need a grip with that LPK package)
Complete M4 stock from BCM - $83 (This can raise the price of you rifle very fast, the one I listed is just basic with all the parts included; buffer, buffer tube, spring, castle nut, endplate, stock. I have a Magpul ACS stock which costs $130 alone without the other parts. So I have roughly $186 in my stock setup alone. Just something to think about.)

Approx. $280 in lower

Approx. total cost of basic rifle with iron sight setup: $1129

What I have listed are great quality parts, but it can still get more expensive than that. For instance, the better rails will def raise that total even higher by about $100-$300 depending on the rails. The stock can increase price as well as stated above. The LPK can go either way, for high-end you're looking at $200+, for cheaper side $50-70. The stripped lower reciever is really up to what roll stamp design you want as prices can range from $100-$200.

Well this is a look at a quality 'middle of the road' stock build with iron sights, ready to shoot.

...And for my triple post, just wanted to say sorry for the thread-jack.