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#219125 - 07/01/13 08:39 PM no 3rd upshift
stoveguy Offline
Member
Registered: 11/03/06
Posts: 244
Loc: minnesota
99 gt. got 1-2 shift. but no 2-3 shift. if i keep reving till i hit 40-45 or so the trans will shift into OD. i can crusie at 45 and above all day and if i punch the gas, it will downshift to 3rd gear and stay in 3rd as long as i am giving it 2/3 gas or more. if i slow to 40mph or so, it will skip 3 and drop into 2. and than i repeat my overev to get back into OD. so, why no 3 on upshift but 3 works if i punch it? so i do have 3rd gear sometimes. not just on normal acceleration.
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#219126 - 07/02/13 09:46 AM Re: no 3rd upshift [Re: stoveguy]
Richard Candelario Offline
Member
Registered: 12/15/05
Posts: 5222
Loc: FT Carson, CO
I'd guess that either clutch packs or gears are bad or the controller is giving bad commands OR you have a vacuum leak. I can't remember which years had the vacuum lines for the tranny, but you might have one of those years.
_________________________

WizAire CAI w/9" K&N & HV3, 2.5" d/p w/h/f cat, Cobra CB, PowerSlot slots w/Hawk HPS, GR-2s, GMPP handling kit, NextLevel STBs, Pilot Sport A/S Plus tires.

98 L36/MM5
RaC
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#219127 - 07/02/13 05:07 PM Re: no 3rd upshift [Re: Richard Candelario]
Richard Candelario Offline
Member
Registered: 12/15/05
Posts: 5222
Loc: FT Carson, CO

Service Information
Home Publications Number Search Bulletin Search Help

1999 Pontiac Grand Prix | Grand Prix (VIN W) Service Manual | Transmission/Transaxle | Automatic Transaxle - 4T60-E | Diagnostic Information and Procedures | Document ID: 36006
No 2-3 Shift
No 2-3 Shift

Checks


Cause

Control Valve Assembly

• Stuck 2-3 shift valve
• Stuck 3-2 manual downshift valve

Channel Plate Gasket


Mispositioned or damaged

Driven Sprocket Support


Blocked Third clutch passage

Input Housing and Shaft Assembly

• Damaged seals
• Blocked oil passages

Third Clutch Assembly

• Burned clutch plates
• Damaged piston or seals
• Damaged checkball assembly in the piston

Third Roller Clutch Assembly

• Damaged cage
• Rollers out of the cage
• Damaged springs
• Misassembled input sun gear shaft
• No third gear in Manual Lo
• No engine braking in Manual Lo
© 2013 General Motors Corporation. All rights reserved.
_________________________

WizAire CAI w/9" K&N & HV3, 2.5" d/p w/h/f cat, Cobra CB, PowerSlot slots w/Hawk HPS, GR-2s, GMPP handling kit, NextLevel STBs, Pilot Sport A/S Plus tires.

98 L36/MM5
RaC
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#219128 - 07/02/13 05:09 PM Re: no 3rd upshift [Re: stoveguy]
Richard Candelario Offline
Member
Registered: 12/15/05
Posts: 5222
Loc: FT Carson, CO

Service Information
Home Publications Number Search Bulletin Search Help

1999 Pontiac Grand Prix | Grand Prix (VIN W) Service Manual | Transmission/Transaxle | Automatic Transaxle - 4T65-E | Diagnostic Information and Procedures | Document ID: 54887
Slipping or No Third Gear
Slipping or No Third Gear

Checks


Cause

DEFINITION: A large engine RPM increase is noted in third gear, Drive range, with little or no vehicle forward speed increase. First, second, and fourth gear operation are normal. Shifts into third gear are soft or do not occur. Third gear ratio is 1.000:1.

Automatic Transmission Fluid Level


Low fluid level

Transmission Main Line Pressure


Low transmission main line pressure

Oil Filter Assembly

• The oil filter assembly (100) is missing, plugged, or damaged.
• The oil filter seal assembly (101) is missing or is damaged.

Control Valve Body Assembly

• The 2-3 shift valve (357) or the 3-2 manual downshift valve (356) is stuck or binding.
• Debris is found in the passages of the control valve body (301) or of the control valve body spacer plate and gasket assembly (396)
• The #4 or the #9 ball check valve is missing or mislocated.

Driven Sprocket Support Assembly


A plugged third clutch oil passage in the driven sprocket support assembly (609)

Third Clutch Assembly

• Input clutch housing oil seal rings (628) are missing or damaged.
• The third clutch ball check valve assembly (724) is missing or damaged.
• The third clutch piston (642) is damaged.
• The third clutch piston inner seal (641) is missing or damaged.
• The third clutch plates (645-648) are worn or misassembled.

Third Clutch Sprag Assembly

• The sprag (720) was misassembled or backwards on the inner race (661).
• A damaged third clutch sprag assembly (653, 661, 719-721)
© 2013 General Motors Corporation. All rights reserved.
_________________________

WizAire CAI w/9" K&N & HV3, 2.5" d/p w/h/f cat, Cobra CB, PowerSlot slots w/Hawk HPS, GR-2s, GMPP handling kit, NextLevel STBs, Pilot Sport A/S Plus tires.

98 L36/MM5
RaC
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#219129 - 07/03/13 09:43 AM Re: no 3rd upshift [Re: stoveguy]
stoveguy Offline
Member
Registered: 11/03/06
Posts: 244
Loc: minnesota
The 2-3 shift valve (357) or the 3-2 manual downshift valve (356) is stuck or binding.
close, but no cigar. what do you call it when you punch it and want to go from OD to 3rd gear? used to call it hitting the passing gear. but that was when cars did not have OD. you would cruise in 3 and hit 2nd for passing. i can force it into 3 on the highway. so 3 does work.
the 97 has a vacuum fitting, in 98 that went away. pretty sure.


Edited by stoveguy (07/03/13 09:45 AM)
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#219130 - 07/03/13 04:18 PM Re: no 3rd upshift [Re: stoveguy]
Richard Candelario Offline
Member
Registered: 12/15/05
Posts: 5222
Loc: FT Carson, CO
so you have no downshift. gimme some time and Ill get back into the shop manuals and get that info for you.
_________________________

WizAire CAI w/9" K&N & HV3, 2.5" d/p w/h/f cat, Cobra CB, PowerSlot slots w/Hawk HPS, GR-2s, GMPP handling kit, NextLevel STBs, Pilot Sport A/S Plus tires.

98 L36/MM5
RaC
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#219131 - 07/03/13 04:45 PM Re: no 3rd upshift [Re: stoveguy]
Richard Candelario Offline
Member
Registered: 12/15/05
Posts: 5222
Loc: FT Carson, CO
couldnt find the symptom you're talking about, so here's the functional test instead.


Service Information
Home Publications Number Search Bulletin Search Help

1999 Pontiac Grand Prix | Grand Prix (VIN W) Service Manual | Transmission/Transaxle | Automatic Transaxle - 4T65-E | Diagnostic Information and Procedures | Document ID: 364064
Functional Test
Functional Test Procedure (1999 W Pontiac / 4T65-E)

Step


Action


Value(s)


Yes


No

The Functional Test Procedure is the first step in diagnosing mechanical or hydraulic transmission conditions. The Functional Test provides procedures and references to the Symptom Diagnosis tables for specific diagnostic information.

1


Important: Engine performance can greatly affect transmission performance. Ensure that the complaint is not the result of poor engine performance before continuing.

Verify the customer complaint.

Has the customer complaint been verified?


--


Go to Step 2


--

2


Important: Many transmissions have default actions that take place once a DTC fault is detected. These actions may be interpreted as being a transmission concern.

Has the Powertrain On Board Diagnostic (OBD) System Check been performed?


--


Go to Step 3


Go to Powertrain On Board Diagnostic (OBD) System Check in Engine Controls

3


Perform a visual inspection. Look for the following conditions:
• Vehicle damage
• Transmission oil pan damage. Refer to Oil Pan Replacement .
• Worn or damaged suspension parts. Refer to Front Suspension.
Worn or damaged steering parts. Refer to Steering.
• Transmission range selector cable damaged or out of adjustment. Refer to Range Selector Lever Cable Adjustment .
• Loose, worn, damaged or missing:
- mounts or struts
- brackets
- mounting hardware
- Refer to Transmission Mount Replacement .
• Transmission cooler or cooler line restrictions. Refer to Automatic Transmission Oil Cooler Flow Test .
• Fluid leaks. Refer to Fluid Leak Diagnosis .

Was an item identified that needs service?


--


Go to the Appropriate Repair or Diagnosis Section


Go to Step 4

4


Perform the Transmission Fluid Check .

Is the procedure complete?


--


Go to Step 5


Go to Transmission Fluid Check

5


Perform the Road Test .

Did the vehicle exhibit any objectionable performance condition?


--


Go to Step 6


System OK

6


Did the vehicle exhibit objectionable torque converter operation?


--


Go to Step 15


Go to Step 7

7


Did the vehicle produce any objectionable noise condition?


--


Go to Symptom Diagnosis (Noise and Vibration Diagnosis)


Go to Step 8

8


Did the vehicle exhibit a vibration condition?


--


Go to Step 9


Go to Step 10

9


Did the vibration occur only during TCC apply or release?


--


Go to Step 15


Go to Symptom Diagnosis (Noise and Vibration Diagnosis)

10


Did the vehicle exhibit a shift speed condition such as low or high shift speeds?


--


Go to Symptom Diagnosis (Shift Speed Diagnosis)


Go to Step 11

11


Did the vehicle exhibit any of the following shift quality (feel) conditions?
• Harsh, soft, delayed or no engagement
• Harsh, soft or delayed shifts
• Shift shudder, flare or tie-up


--


Go to Step 12


Go to Step 13

12


Perform the Line Pressure Check .

Is the line pressure within specification?


--


Go to Symptom Diagnosis (Shift Quality (Feel) Diagnosis)


Go to Symptom Diagnosis (Fluid Diagnosis)

13


Did the vehicle exhibit any of the following shift pattern conditions?
• No upshift or downshift
• Only one or two forward gears
• No FIRST gear, no SECOND gear, No THIRD gear, or no FOURTH gear
• Slipping
• Non-FIRST gear start


--


Go to Symptom Diagnosis (Shift Pattern Diagnosis)


Go to Step 14

14


Did the vehicle exhibit any of the following range performance conditions?
• No PARK, no REVERSE or no DRIVE
• No engine braking
• No gear selection
• Incorrect gear selection


--


Go to Symptom Diagnosis (Range Performance Diagnosis)


System OK

15


Refer to the Torque Converter Diagnosis .

Did the vehicle exhibit any of the following torque converter or TCC conditions?
• Stuck ON or OFF
• Early or late engagement
• Incorrect apply or release
• Soft or harsh apply
• Clunk or shudder
• No torque multiplication
• Excessive slip
• Poor acceleration
• Engine stalls


--


Go to Symptom Diagnosis (Torque Converter Diagnosis)


System OK
© 2013 General Motors Corporation. All rights reserved.
_________________________

WizAire CAI w/9" K&N & HV3, 2.5" d/p w/h/f cat, Cobra CB, PowerSlot slots w/Hawk HPS, GR-2s, GMPP handling kit, NextLevel STBs, Pilot Sport A/S Plus tires.

98 L36/MM5
RaC
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#219132 - 07/03/13 08:07 PM Re: no 3rd upshift [Re: stoveguy]
stoveguy Offline
Member
Registered: 11/03/06
Posts: 244
Loc: minnesota
I have downshift from OD to 3rd, if that's what u call it. If I give it 3/4 gas or so. Once I lift off gas, it goes right into OD. Sort of an odd point, if ur driving at 50mph in OD, and slow down to 30mph and hit thr gas, should ur car downshift to 3rd? Don't think my car does. I think it will drop into 2nd.
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#219133 - 07/03/13 08:10 PM Re: no 3rd upshift [Re: stoveguy]
Richard Candelario Offline
Member
Registered: 12/15/05
Posts: 5222
Loc: FT Carson, CO
yeah, I haven't a clue. I try to leave trannys alone because of how intricate they are. In my opinion, they're little more than a black magic. All I've been doing is trying to do a keyword match between what you've been telling me and what the shop manuals were telling me. My ONLY decent advice left would be to take it to a shop.
_________________________

WizAire CAI w/9" K&N & HV3, 2.5" d/p w/h/f cat, Cobra CB, PowerSlot slots w/Hawk HPS, GR-2s, GMPP handling kit, NextLevel STBs, Pilot Sport A/S Plus tires.

98 L36/MM5
RaC
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#219134 - 07/04/13 08:10 AM Re: no 3rd upshift [Re: stoveguy]
stoveguy Offline
Member
Registered: 11/03/06
Posts: 244
Loc: minnesota
99 is 1 yr special. Can't use a 98 or 2000. Found a few 99 intrigue trans. Not sure if they work. I see a few in the $200 range with 130k miles. Hella cheaper than rebuild. I will swap it. No 3rd bites big time around town. Can't sell car as is.
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#219137 - 07/04/13 11:24 AM Re: no 3rd upshift [Re: stoveguy]
Richard Candelario Offline
Member
Registered: 12/15/05
Posts: 5222
Loc: FT Carson, CO
Here's hoping that it all works out for you, then. Sorry that I'm rather uneducated about transmissions.
_________________________

WizAire CAI w/9" K&N & HV3, 2.5" d/p w/h/f cat, Cobra CB, PowerSlot slots w/Hawk HPS, GR-2s, GMPP handling kit, NextLevel STBs, Pilot Sport A/S Plus tires.

98 L36/MM5
RaC
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#219138 - 07/04/13 06:07 PM Re: no 3rd upshift [Re: stoveguy]
stoveguy Offline
Member
Registered: 11/03/06
Posts: 244
Loc: minnesota
None can diagnose trans issues online. That's cool. Talked to tech and he said unplug harness so trans will default to both shift solenoids in "off" position.that will force trans into 3rd gear. Drive it and see if I can hit 40mph. If so, clutches are ok and it might be the accumulator o- ring leaking which can be fixed by dropping pan. Maybe. The 2 solenoids do a dance, 1 on, 1 off, or 1 on, 2 on, 1 off, 2 on and finally both on. 4 speeds with 2 solenoids
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#219144 - 07/11/13 10:08 AM Re: no 3rd upshift [Re: stoveguy]
stoveguy Offline
Member
Registered: 11/03/06
Posts: 244
Loc: minnesota
Going to swap out trans with used one. It works but no 3rd is major issue. How long till it does not work at all? I would rather do the swap and put n a good used one. At least car will be working like it should. Yes, trans swap sucks
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#219147 - 07/14/13 11:25 AM Re: no 3rd upshift [Re: stoveguy]
Richard Candelario Offline
Member
Registered: 12/15/05
Posts: 5222
Loc: FT Carson, CO
Not being around the trans myself, I have no clue how long it'll last before it lunches itself for good. Good luck with the tranny swap, it's a VERY involved process.
_________________________

WizAire CAI w/9" K&N & HV3, 2.5" d/p w/h/f cat, Cobra CB, PowerSlot slots w/Hawk HPS, GR-2s, GMPP handling kit, NextLevel STBs, Pilot Sport A/S Plus tires.

98 L36/MM5
RaC
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