This weekend I finally have time to install the TOG headers.
Anybody have any advice?
I have the gaskets and the beer already. I've soaked the bolts in PB blaster a few times already.

Also, I'm changing the tranny fluid / filter, installing zzp shift kit, throwing a smaller pulley on the paxton setup, O2 sensor, new plugs, new tune, etc.

Thanks,
Bill

Advice?

Have a friend on hand for "sliding" the rear header in and for bolting the rear of the crossover in.

And make sure the crossover is where you want it before tightening the front header...

Do you have the pre-bent dipstick? i thought i remembering togs needing that.

Other than that, get ready for saying "How is this going to work?!"

Just kinda wiggle it around a lot and have someone there with you to be under the car to feed the crossover/ rear manifold to

Yeah, what those guys said.

Get ready to bend yourself in some fun positions trying to drop the rear one in.

Thanks.
I have a spare dipstick tube to bend around. I've got a conduit bender I was gunna try to do the bends with, but we'll probably need to get creative.
Anyone use high-temp RTV in addition to the gaskets?

yes. i used copper RTV on the y-collector. And lots of it. But they still leak.

But you should have better luck with TOGS. I would use RTV.

I have a set of togs and my egr valve that connects to the header is still leaking after going through a tube of high temp rtv...... It ticks only when I floor it.....

do the penny mod. thats what i did!

whats the penny mod?

Something Ghetto and Rice!


j/k

You can use a penny to block the EGR valve.

lol...you sir are correct!

It's a little ghetto, but it works. I'm doing it when I install my S&S headers this week sometime or maybe this weekend.

Well they're in, thats all I have time to say right now.

Been there. I know how you feel.

Updates when you get a chance please.

Ya man. Just sit down. Chill out.

I know the feeling exactly. Headers are horrible.

Post up when your ready

Kool Aid voice or Dane Cook voice, Drummer?

mmm, I'm going with kool-aid voice. haha

The header install went really well!
Also did:
spark plugs
downpipe/cat section
transmission shift kit
transmission fluid/filter change
SC cog belt change
SC oil line repair
SC pulley
make new transmission dipstick tube


Basically the transmission stuff took up 7/10 of the time. Literally. First, its messy as heck. But the evil part was that the stock dipstick tube doesn't fit anymore with the headers in. I knew this before. I was just going to bend the one I had.... even picked up an extra one from Morad a few weeks ago just in case. Well one tube is utterly destroyed. It is NOT easy to bend the stock tubes... they're extremely thick and hard to bend. Nearly ruined the 2nd tube, too. Ended up using copper pipe (the somewhat-flexible stuff) and making a whole new tube. Looks slightly rediculous but works. In the process of trying one of the messed up tubes, I lost about a gallon of new dexron-VI fluid that costed me $26 to replace. Also, a 10' section of flexible copper tubing runs $55 here. Ouch.

I also melted the vacuum line going to my vac/boost gauge on the header. Gotta fix that later.

Overall it was well worth it. PCM is still learning, though.

I have a killer exhaust leak from the cat area so my friend is welding that area tonight. Headers don't seem to be leaking at all!

Pics later....

Good job man. There are always a few little things that you have to get done later.

Have fun with it!

How does it feel?!

At part throttle it feels a little more peppy. At full throttle the low end MIGHT actually be worse (its not properly tuned yet, so I dunno). And the top and is much improved.

I'm running way rich right now (975-980mV O2 at WOT) so I have some tuning to do.


picture update: oops, I left my SD card at home, so you'll have to wait till this coming weekend to get the pics. doesn't help that I used my parents digital camera (SD) and the only SD card reader is at my place downtown.

Well... just felt like I should post here because I finished my headers last night. Anyone care to throw some words of moral encouragement my direction?

I installed the S&S headers. Really, the only problem I had was installing the O2 sensor. It came WAY too close to the brake lines so it was pretty difficult to get into place. Other than that, the install wasn't too bad. Everything fit nicely, and I didn't have to bend either the oil or trans dipsticks as they were both fine.

Getting the rear header in was somewhat of a PITA. I had a friend pull the motor forward while I finagled it in. Other than that... pretty simple really. Install time was about 7 hrs working on my own for most of that.

congrats drummer! That mod list of yours is growing by the day!

Don't worry everything is going to be ok. Hey if you feeling like everything in life isn't workin out for ya, just start your car and sit down on the ground behing your car and listen to that nice idle w/ the XP and headers. Either that or get some WOT runs with that supercharger whine in your system. Your bound to feel better after that.

Oh and congrats both of y'all. Now I want some headers.

my headers will get to my house the fourth of december, when i go to do the install how much easier would it be with the car on a lift, or would it be easier not lifted, my main concern is the rear manifold.........

Wow, bringing back old thread. If you go with Pacesetters, I would definitely do it on a lift. I know, Ordonez, had his car jacked up for a whole mod day messing around with the rear piping not sealing and coming apart. I was able to dismantle my whole exhaust back to muffs in my garage with just a jack and jack stands. But Pacesetters, you better have all the tools!

I don't see how a lift would help that much. I would hate having to climb up to the top of the car perched/squatting over the engine like that. For my underneath work, some tall jackstands were perfect. You can rest your head on the ground while you do some of it, and everything is accessible.

After the headers and crossover were installed, I had the car on jackstands for the Y. A lift would be nice, but only after the top stuff is done; it's not needed though.

ok cool, and yeah, i did bring back and old thread, i didnt want to start a new one for a rellavant subject. thanks for the tips

Which ones you going with, Pacesetters? Who you buying them from. If so, make sure you go to NAPA and get those special clamps, Ordonez and Lonzergling know what clamps to get. Try the search it is in there somewhere.

im got the pacesetters from zzp, its said that they come with everything needed, i paid the extra 40-something to get the zzp package and not the ones directly from pacesetter, another question i have is how hard is it to unbolt the rear manifold, just remove the mounts and roll the motor foward im guessing.

Yah, just you can't see really what you are doing. The bolt under the egr tubing is a 10mm, the others should be all 13mm. I just use a 1/2" socket, but go with a 13mm. Anything else let us know. I don't know anything about the Pacesetters, but they are a PITA. But there are some on here that can help you out with those.
Did you get the coated ones or just regular ones?

i just got the regular ones, i looked into those easy seal clamps, im going to get those because they are highly suggested by many here, how many should i get, they are pretty cheap, i want to do this right so there arent any problems later

I heard two, but not positive. So you got the black ones, huh. Many pics please!

oh deffinetly, ill take lots, like you did when you did your headers, il try to do i video sound clip, if i can figure out how to with my digi camera and post it on phot bucket

STart it up open Pacesetter style, you won't regret the noise, ROFL!

kind of like you did before i finish off the rest of the piping just to enjoy the loudness for a moment?

for the video your talking about right?

IF you want or just to hear the disturbance.

consider it done then, ill have to play with my camera and test it out on some garbage video clips so when it comes down to crunch time ill get it right.

None of the NAPAs around here carry them. Already tried getting my hand on those. I'm still running what they've supplied.

Open Pacesetters sound like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axLibsNhMpc

Exactly how it sounds, and try going up a bridge, or driving on the highway like Corey had to, it isn't kind!

i seen them on another site online, they where 7 and some change, so not that expensive, ill get a couple just incase.

Pacesetter tips
1. DO NOT use the clamps that they supply. Use the clamps from car quest, they are like a sleeve that each have 2 bolts on them. One on each end. You will need 2 of them. And use LOTS of copper RTV.
2. You have to start the car on open headers, just to understand how crappy and loud the 3800 is.
3. Be prepared to bust your knuckles on the rear manifold, you can see what you are doing, so it makes things pretty difficult.
4. Your egr tube 9 times out of 10 doesnt fit in the hole, so just use a few pennies and delete it, if you have access to a tuner just delete the codes.
5. Set aside a lot of time to do them. I did mine when i did my top swap so it took a few days, but its going to take you the better part of a day to do it.
6. ZZP doesnt fix anything. They supposedly expand one of the pipes, but it doesnt matter, they wont seal. I welded mine instead.

I have to go to class, but i can post up more later.

i did my pacesetters, it was tough to do hence it taking eight hours tonight. well....headers make the car sound like garbage, sorry no picks or open header sound clip, i was soo in the zone and wanted to get it over with. they leak like crazy when i go home next weekend ill have the leaks welded, is it ok to open the car up if it leaks or should i grandma it till they are welded?

Well Corey (ordonez) was on a 200 mile trip to a mod meet and on the highway his pacesetters decided to go open pacesetters. He had to drive highway speeds really far! Loud noise I assume!
The best thing for your car would be to fix that and get on some kind of scanner. I noticed your mod list doesn't have a PT or Aeroforce gauge at least.

that same thing happend to me yestarday well almost same, it sounded like my headers became open but when i took it to my shop(builder) i noticed the the bung blug for the rear o2 poped off...easy fix and it toned down abit, i still dont like the sound out of the headers it sounds like one of those small propellar airplanes, i went ahead and check to see where my leaks are, the crossover is fine i presume but i know for sure that "Y" is so ill get it welded when im home, i found a coolant leak too, it was an open hole on the manifold under the snout of the s/c below that "T" vacuum line and also under the colant elbow piece tha goes from the maifold to the alt. baraket
so i plugged it with a small bolt my car has been idling funny sometimes since i dont that though im wondering if there is sopposed to be some sort of bleeder bolt there or something, either way it was open and leaking coolant, ill research it to find the prper part, besides that all my other vacuum lines are intact and where they are supposed to be, last step i need to take is rear o2 simulator/emulator which ever it is and a new front o2 and im thinking about deleting my egr since it doesnt fit well with the pacestters( you get what you pay for)

just do the penny mod to delete the egr.

and ive said it before, headers make your exhaust sound like crap

Mine doesn't sound like crap! It has a litle more rasp due to no Cat and the TOGs, but I stuck with stock muffs, and most seem not too.

I like the louder idle sound. But idle is the only thing I don't hate about 3800 exhaust sound.

im going to do that penny trick to the egr next weekend, its cheaper and it works so i heard i searched around in previous posts, and i seen an idea that i like.

its worked for me for a while now.

since the header install my car has been stalling once in a while why the heck would it do this?

this is due to your other problem. your car is stalling and not making boost... vacuum leak.

all my vacuum hoses and such are intack but since i got pacesetters the tube that goes from the egr to the header doesnt fit well, could this be it, im stumped else wise because i followed all the hoses and checked fitings

someone correct me if im wrong...

but with the egr just sitting there with all of that umetered air coming into the LIM that is like a gigantic vacuum leak. there's your problem

wooooooo!!!!!!!!!! thanks, just wanted confirmation.

just go out there and JB weld a penny onto both ends. one on the header and one on the LIM tube.

problem solved!

austingtp put a breather on the end of the tube comming off the header and blocked the hole on the header i could do that also?

He did, where did you get that info, I'd like to see. Anyways, you probably be throwing a code or two since the EGR will be blocked. I believe it has two codes for the EGR. Need a way to adjust that via tuner. Just do something to delete the damn EGR, less headaches.

sorry i thought it was austingtp........we all make mistakes, it was a while ago i forgot.

That is so you can keep the EGR workig and not update it via tuner. That will work, but just something else to cause problems, but ROOK knows whats going on and has a tuner.

found out about my problem, the lack of proper boost, and my car stalling is because of the header leak and a fouled o2. now i know what i have to fix...yay