hey everyone...im lookin at a turbo kit from partsforyourcar.com.....is any internal mods needed??? Think its worth $3000??? THANKS

If you got the money, hell yeah it's worth it. I hear those things on a GT will tear up a GTP.

The only future mods i can see you needing is a new tranny.

how much hp & torque do most people have when they start having tranny problems?

it also depends on how hard the car is driven as far as the tranny problems...

as quote from grandprixstore.com

If you have a the L67 motor as found in the 97-03 Grand Prix GTP then also available is an adaptor plate to make the kit work perfectly. What you will do is remove the snout (nose drive), and block off the end of the s/c casing. This will make way more horsepower then with the supercharger. If you have an intercooler installed already, not to worry as this will work just fine with all intercoolers on the market.

Due what!!!!! Unhook the supercharger and force boost into it that way!?!?!?!?! I think that umm this company may have a decent product but remember who drives the fasted grand prix in the world. It isnt Cartuning. I have never heard of unhooking a supercharger and then using another method of forced induction on top of it. And the fact that it isnt intercooled for that price??take your 3 k get a 112 and a intercooler and be safer on a bet.......I think if your going to turbo a l67 there should be a new intake ie like someone else thats gettin ready to release a turbo upgrade...cough intense......hehe and any turbo needs to be intercooled. plus the dont give any specifics on what is recommended for a psi setting.........i would shop around and be extremely leary.......

what I mean is in general how much power does the tranny hold up to? I plan on doing a good amount of engine work in the future when I have money. My goal right now is 240hp n/a, but I want to reach numbers past that.

240 whp i wouldnt say is putting it past it. just depends on the current state of your transmission.

Chico can confirm that 272whp/305tq is too much.

Oh yea,but they say a turbo is easier on the trans.than other power adders.Time will tell.

Me personally I'd rather be blown. And supposedly a turbo is easier on the tranny because it takes some time for it to spool up so you don't have the onset of torque like you do a supercharger.

I've heard that a lot of people can go to 300 whp before the tranny fails. Like it's been said, it all depends on the state of your tranny, how you drive, yada, yada, yada...Yeah, I would wait for Intense to get their turbo kit out. I'm sure it will be awesome.

I hope that intense is cheaper or at least includes an intercooler.

I just now took a look at this set-up (I didnt know it had been added to the store)...I gotta admit it looks like the simplest turbo kit to install I think I've ever seen...it would be interesting to see if the performance is as good as they claim.

How much hp does a 3.4 pulley, cai, and exhaust add to a gtp?

Yeah well it does come on a lil slower than a blower but when you look at it in the end you are still putting 280 horsepower and 300+ ft lbs in a tranny that was designed to hold 200 fly horse and 230 fly torque you will have the chance fo rsomething to break.....

Don't expect the prices to go down much,i've priced out the individual parts and they're not to far out of line,but what you may expect from Intense is a more refined product. The few guy's that are converting the blown L67 to turbo are not just bocking of the SC they are going to a L36 intake and plugging the heads or using the intake off an F body,this requires cutting off the inlet for the throttle body and weldind to the opposite end .THese kits are available from Stattama.I personally would not go turbo with the L67 i think there is still a lot of potential for great gains for a lot less than 3K ,wipple i believe is planning prodution of a kit for the 3.8 ,i know there is all ready a couple of prototypes out there,intercooled this would be the way to go .Who knows they may even develope a kit for the N/A guys.

Ok granted it still makes the power but. Any time you shock something it's chances of breaking are greater if you bring the power up gently then the risk of breaking is less. Here's a little experiment for you. Take a string about 18 inches long. Hold one end in each hand. Leave some slack in the string then quickly pull the ends away from each other. The string breaks right. Now take the same length of string held the same way only this time no slack and pull gently. You'll see that you can put more force on the string by slowly applying the load then if you "shock" it. The same goes for tranny parts.

Next up for development on this turbo kit is an intercooler. The kit is very high quality and was worked on and tested for months before being released. I don't think it would be easy to come out with a more "refined" kit. This kit is super high quality, well thought out, comes with all the stuff you need, installs in under a full day, and bolts on with no other mods required. It's really meant for the GT owners and not the GTP owners, but we do support the GTP owners with the block off plate. I'm sure it would be possible to do the same job on a GTP by getting a GT intake manifold and removing the blower, but why bother spending all the money?

Nice thing about the turbo is that the lag actually helps you launch the car without smoking the tires like a supercharger. So you can floor it at the dragstrip and get very little wheelspin. By the time you are moving, the turbo kicks in and you better hold on. We should be posting dyno results soon.

Even nicer is you don't really need much else in the way of other mods. Headers won't fit with the turbo, so you can save your money on those and just get the turbo and maybe an exhaust. It comes with everything else you could possibly want.

The L67's run lower compression so they wouldn't get as much of a gain as an L36, but if they rather turbo anyway it's their choice. I wouldn't mind taking their unwanted eaton m90 and L67 manifold though.

around 35-45 im guessing, but its hard to say

As far as turbo vs. blown, I would much rather be blown, it spools quicker, its a lot smoother, and there are less things that can go wrong. I have quite a few freinds who have turbo cars and they are constantly adjusting boost pressure, and worrying about blowing valves. The boost your supercharger spools is proportional to your RPM's, however the turbo works off of exhaust, which makes the boost spool, which then makes the exhaust come out faster, which then turns the turbine so the boost spools more, its a vicious cylce and if you dont keep a close eye on it, you can do some serious damage to your engine. However, turbos do produce a lot more power that SC's and if tamed, I think would tear the shit out of a GTP with all other things equally modded.

But, to accomplish running outstanding times in a turbo GP you would probably have to do extensive mods to the rockers, the cam shaft and the pistons and push rods, and you would definately need an intercooler and a bigger intake than stock along with U-bend replacement and a gutted resonator just to start

And what would you do with it ,the swap is a little more involved than just slapping the intake and blower on,no offence but you need the cyl.heads and a variety of other parts .the turbo installation is much easier.

I wasn't serious about it. I would like to boost though, but I think I'd rather build up n/a for now.....at least till I can afford a tranny that can handle more power. btw what do you guys think about the centrifugal supercharger kit that zzperformance has? http://www.zzperformance.com/zzp/products/csc/centrifugal_sc_kit.htm

All I know is from all the post I have read and from what I undersatnd of IC Engines... It is still better to buy a GTP put a few $$ into it and get yourself into the 12s with the added features of the GTP you are better off...

Just my .02 worth..... but hell I get the GMS and the rebates so I will get new cars as often as possible, so do not listen to me

YAY jizz i agree. and have any of you all ever drove a turbod car or gone for a ride in one. While the concept that it isnt as instaneous off the line is tru to a point depending on wastegate and turbo size you can spool boost pretty damn fast and still break something just as easy as the instant on of the eaton. I know i reference the DAMN NEON a lot but a good example is my buddys basically stock car can be going about 40 miles an hour in 3rd gear and not be putting any boost at all and if he mashes in the blink of the eye he is spinning the shit out of his tires and boosting 16 psi. herc dont get me wrong i completely understand what you are getting at but when it comes down to it its still a lot more power than factory and when you add a lot of power you also add the chance for parts to fail.

Our SC's on GTPS boost are not relevant to engine RPMs if you have a real boost gauge and you floor it you will pull the same boost across the board however a Centrifugal (spelling) boost is relative to rpms'

Question to you:
Can the tranny take this new turbo kit? Thrasher indicates that the 4T65e transaxles can handle only up to the stock engine vs. the 4T65eHD in the GTP which can handle stock + more.

There has been a lot of confusion on this topic as far as how low and high compression engines work. This statement above is absolutely not true, infact it is the opposite. The L67 engine is a low compression engine meaning that the pistons and cylinders when under compression are subject to less PSI than say an L36 engine would be, and are much similar in compression design to turbo engines such as GN's and Eclips'. This makes the engine react more dramatically to the boost in compression level. If the blower was on a high compression engine it would take greater boost levels to accomplish the same gain in horsepower, and these high compression levels would certainly damage stock internals.

Also, digital-d, your question about how the turbo would work on a stock l67 motor, and this is the answer. The only actual moving part in the blower is the turbine which is connected to the snout. Once you remove the snout the supercharger housing is just a big open chamber. you put the plate on the passenger end of the supercharger houseing and it just becomes a sort of intake chamber, not very ideal, but i'm sure it deosnt slow down the rate of boost spool enought to even feel.

So, in short, I would not reccomend putting the turbo on an l36 engine unless you bore it out and possibly replace the push rods and rockers. Also, necessary on both cars for this upgrade would be new exhaust (downpipe, ubend and resonator at least) and an intercooler, along with common KR reducers like plugs, t-stat, T/B spacer ect...

Your wrong if you take an l36 at 200hp and put it beside an l67 minus the SC you have at best a 170hp motor,it would take 6-8lbs of boost to make 300hp with the l36, where as it would take 10-12lbs of boost to make the same with an l67 ,the idea of boost is to raise comp. ratio to an ideal 13-1 obviosly it would take more boost to raise an 8-1 comp. ratio than an 9.5-1 comp.ratio .In regards to transmissions the 4t65e allows max eng.tq.of 285 and max.gearbox tq.of 400 whereas the 4t65e hd is eng.tq max290 and gearbox tq.of 405.

Well theirs alot more too it then just CRs and PSI levels. But you still have the tranny to deal with. The stock HD is still limited to about 300whp. I've been reading that with all the new turbos coming out people are blowing trannys at a higher rate then before. If you wanna run fast and put up big HP numbers your gonna have to spend some cash on an Intense tranny.

Right, a low compression engine without some sort of blower on it (tubo or SC) would be a complete dog, however, the low compression engine still gains more from boost than does a high compression engine unless you bore it out and lower the compression.

I never once said that the L67 would produce as much horse as the L36 without a blower, and I also never said that you couldnt gain that ammount of horsepower from boost on an L36, I just wanted to make sure everyone understood that the L67 would benifit much better with the turbo as is from factory than the L36 would.

Just seemed like everyone was under the impression that this turbo was mainly for GT's, dont want anyone who is unfamiliar with blowers and turbos destroy their engine.

I mean yeah, you could put 6-8 lbs of boost in a high compression engine, but you would definately risk a chance of blowing the head, or throwing a rod from such high compression levels.

Yeah it might take 10-12 lbs of boost to accomplish 300hp in a low compression engine, but the fact is, with a stock GT, if you put a turbo on it, you couldnt reach 300hp, you would blow your engine up before you ever got close

And right, the idea is to raise compression. In an L67 engine you have a lot more room to work with as far as raising the compression goes, before you will worry about destroying your heads. Even though it takes more boost to get the engine to the same compression level, the car will react more dramatically to the increase in boost at ALL levels in an L67 as opposed to an L36

Also, in my previous post I said that it would take higher compression levels in the L36 to produce the same HP as the L67. I shoule have worded this a little better, what I ment was that yes, you will have to add less boost to an L36 engine to produce 300hp than you would an L67, but the compression in the L36 engine would be much much higher than the actual compression in the L67. The compression in the L36 is already high, so if you add boost to it, then the compression ratio raises from high to really high and can damage your engine. However, the L67 engine has low compression which means that you can add 10, 12, or even 15lbs of boost to the engine to gain horsepower and the compression will still be low enough that its at a safe level. I was referring to the compression levels in the engine as a totally different variable than the ammount of boost you add with a blower or turbo, make a little more sense now???

If I had a GT I would get the Turbo...it sounds like a great mod to me.

Obliviously though as with any car and any engine when you mod it you risk damage.

So mod smart and if you have a GT get the Turbo

I think the work these guys did to get a bosted GT is great, from all the posts I have read converting a GT to a GTP is not worth it but what it seems to me is that the Turbo is a better way to go, and for less money.

on the Turbo guys Good Job.

Yes, I would aggree with you Jizz, for a GT owner this is probably the most horsepower you can gain from any one mod. This would definately be the way that I would go if I had a GT and wanted large gains, hell, with just a turbo, intercooler and some compression changes on the GT you could easily run anywhere from 5-20lbs of boost, just by adjustin a blow off valve, its a lot easier than swapping pulleys, and in the long run will probably result in higher gains if you continue to build your engine to withstand the boost levels.

I see what you're sayin now 4ss it's just your coments where a little confusing ,I guess time will tell how the turbos are going to affect stock L36's and there trans.I personally would'nt put a turbo on unless you are sure your motor is built to withstand the extra power.

Yeah, I definately aggree, sorry about the confusion again, I knew what I was thinking I just didnt know how to explain it

Very good points regarding High compression engine tolerance levels vs boost. Since my clutch disks seems to be burned out, I am looking at ZZperformance's HD upgrade. Currently calling for details.

Hercman, are there any postings on the web from the people who have blown their stock trannys from these turbo kits? I am very, very interested in reading them.

I'm going to "take one for the team" and purchase a turbo on my GT and report back. The fix for my tranny will be first, however. I hear the warnings but I will not purchase an intercooler, for now. But hey, $4800 for turbo & tranny is a lot of bread! I'm going to go conservative on the boost and rely on the faith of the GM v6 engineering (Hey, I heard that snicker) and my 93k motor.

To change boost on a Turbo you do nothing with the blow off valve. It only releases pressure once built. Your actual adjustment is in the Wastegate. Definition=Excess boost being wasted. I understand what your saying rssfeed4 but it would take hella work to be running 20 psi on this motor let a lone i think the turbo they are including with this kit doesnt have an effective range to 20 psi. I may be wrong. As for it blowing the tranny thats def gonna happen. As for running without a intercooler i wouldnt do it. I would also insvest in a scan tool for KR. I would say with a gt running a turbo would not exceed 5 psi. Thats just me. I would say 5 psi and having enough fuel would get you close to the 300 hp mark. I think before anyone goes off explaining how much boost and everything if PFYC is completely confident on this product they will offer more details than what they are currently showing IE boost levels for claimed HP #'s and if they are just going to make a general claim that it runs cooler they need to provide data proving it because i dont think they have it all together......

I think the new injectors, plug gaps, computer, and 91+ octane will take care of the knock. They claim knocking won't happen with this kit with minimum 91 octane.

Note the turbo is shipped with 9-10 psi. There is NO mention anywhere on cartuning documentation about the tranny except for the following:

"Cartuning Performance does not recommend increasing boost pressures unless your vehicle has the modifications to support higher boost levels (such as an upgraded transmission, valvetrain work or intercooler)."

This implies the stock tranny works fine with out it.

Implies.

If I were to get an intercooler, I MAY go with the MAP but I've heard bad things about that company. Hard to trust aftermarket sometimes.

Right, I mis worded it, Its actually not the waste gate either that adjusts the PSI its the manual boost controller, the waste gate is just a part of this unit, anyhow, yeah, I dont know exactly how much that turbo will spool, I was just making a theoretical statement as to the ease of tuning the car, and yes, if you read my earlier posts I pretty much said you cant put anything more that 5-8 lbs of boost on a l36 without some very heavy modification.

Also, DUDE!!!!!! I strongly advise you not to put a turbo on your GT unless you get an intercooler to go along with it. If your not doing anything to your internals, you will run a very high risk of damaging several things even if your only at 5PSI. Run it without an intercooler for a month, I bet you will have to replace the head gasket, if not by then, definately in the near future, and your KR will be so bad it will start to destroy your engine. Your engine wasnt made for boost, dont force it, prepare your engine first, then feed it

Also, your comment about the minimmun 91 octane requirement is somewhat ignorant. 91 octane is not just going to magically make your KR go away, I've never checked, but im sure on a hot day you could even find some KR in a stock GTP only running 91 octane(stock GTP boost around 8-9PSI with the 3.8 pulley), and they are set up for boost. Ive got quite a few things done to reduce KR on my car, and with my 3.25 pulley I wont run anything less than 95 octane in my car (110 on race days). Dont take my word for it though, go buy the turbo and a KR sensor and see for yourself

Yeah im glad someone see's my point of view on the whole knock/blow up situation that this will create. And yes the wastegate does control your boost. And you dont have to have a manual boost controller to control boost on a car. I know i work on turbo cars with my buddys....but rssfed i agree on everything else...i read somehwere that turbos actually make hotter air the a roots or screw charger........i wish someone independant would test this and which one is which because no matter who sells it whatever theyt sell runs cooler.

Hmm lets see here. Using hot air to spin a turbine I would think the heat sinc would be tremendous compared to using a mechanical process to take cold air and compress it. I wonder if both were putting out say 10 psi which one would have higher air temps? Not including intercoolers by the way.

I read the website, and they do offer, quite a bit of general KR reducers, like new plugs, new t-stat, reprogrammed pcm, new injectors, u-bend delete, high flow cat, and a FWI. I would these would be good for an L67, but I would still be very very hesitant with an L36.

The questions and answer section on the PFYC store says that :

"...kit was designed properly, and the pcm was tuned for all the changes made, it's perfectly safe. A turbo outputs air much cooler then the stock eaton supercharger does from GM. I don't recall the factory giving you an intercooler! We've tuned the car to 91 octane, and have allowed for 15 degrees of WOT timing, along with many other fueling, trans, etc changes and see absolutely 0 degrees of knock retard. This kit is perfectly safe to use without an intercooler."

I personally thing that the part about our superchargers running hot air is a load of....fertilizer! Turbo cars are notorious for running hot because of the turbo

Uhh hello using super heated air to spin a turbine creates less heat? What are they using ceramic turbines and housings? I think not.

This is one of the reasons why I said this turbo seemed fishy. They don't come direct with some answers and others answers given aren't professional.

When discussing headers w/ the turbo, it doesn't just say something like "the turbo cannot fit with a GT or GTP with aftermarket headers".

Turbo running "cooler" air??? I didn't see that part. Now I am worried.
A turbo get air from exhaust pressure. It is definately hotter than an eaton root charger. I mean most turbo cars have to idle for 10 minutes to cool down vs. a supercharger with no idle. Who ya foolin?