Original thread title: "Rick, why should we inspect our spark plugs and wires?"

Gee, I'm glad yall asked that question. Yall wouldnt wanna be this guy: Your new poster child for bad preventative maintenance. I submit for your viewing pleasure:







The gap on what's left of the electrode is .045. The wire separated at the middle of the boot (and, yes, that's #6), which meant that I had to go fish the other half of the boot from the plug. Which, of course, left the plug terminal behind, so I couldn't fit the plug socket on right away. Yep. I sure were a retard tonight. To include the fact that I waited until all the stores were closed to do this.

Oh, and thanks for being there to smack the back of my head before I did something stupid like yank straight out on old wires, Bobby. What a pal. (jk)

Well, folks, I think my work here is done. The moral of the story: check your plugs and wires before you try and remove them while doing, say the fwd O2 sensor without the proper tool.

oh, I am batting a thousand today, ain't I?

As much as you read up on here, Bobby typed up a secret, that I didn't even use but will now, don't pull the boot but twist the boot till it pops off! Was in a recent thread.

I always found it odd, a great number of people have this incling to tear up their cars after parts places are closed or on holidays. I'll never understand that.

One guy I used to work with made one comment quite often: "You can tell when someone is going to f**k something up. He's getting ready to f**k something up." He said that once, right before a guy improperly installed some crank and rod bearings, locked the engine up, and blamed it on us. He had tried to buy two boxes of mains, thinking it had rods in there too.

So, uh, is Accel or Borg Warner or Autolite wires a good buy? I really dont know if I wanna afford AC Delco right now.

Richard,

I don't think you did too bad...... I've had wires seperate internally a few times, but never actually had a boot break.
The plug having a .045 gap? That's a smaller gap than I use... What are you looking for? Usually the gap gets bigger with use..... Looking at the blurry pics, I'm assuming you have platinums and the plug looks fine to me.

On my 3100, I got so mad at the hidden wire loom I couldn't release I just started yanking on the wire and snapped it in two. I had new wires for replacement, so it wasn't too big of an issue.

guys, please, lookin for wire suggestions...Accel, Borg Warner, Autolite?

One is as good as the other. They're probably made by the same person. AutoZone has three tiers: Valucraft, Duralast, and Bosch. They all look the same to me.

Thanks for the advice, Rook, but I am planning on buying a good set to last awhile. Yet again, buy something cheap like Duralast until payday when I CAN afford AC Delco...Opinions on Accel, Borg Warner, and Autolite, please?

I run Accel 8.8 spiro pro.
I had one go bad from grounding out on the heat shield for the AC lines and Accel replaced it no questions asked.
You gotta cut and crimp your own though... If you don't want to do that, I would suggest the MSD's from PFYC.
Taylor makes a wire for our cars, but I'm not impressed with the product... I've dealt with a few Taylor failures.

ok, thanks Clint. I'll make the calls I have to tomorrow and post up here the solution.

Does ZZP sell AC delco wires? I don't have any personal experience with them but everyone says stock GM ignition is the best around.

Yeah, me and my wife had discussed it earlier this evening (just before I logged off the first time), and we decided that it would be better if I went ahead and spent the 78 USD on AC Delco wires and the 30-ish USD on Autolite XP606. So tomorrow, I call Checkers in Cruces to arrange the parts being put aside for me, then call for a wire transfer to afford the parts.

Including that darn O2 socket.

Oh, jackin my own thread here: The sticker I got from ZZP, is that for the inside of a window or can I stick it to my toolbox?

What are the Autolite XP606's?

Honestly you will be fine with regular 605's or 606's, and they are like $1.50 apiece. Save some money that way

I have one of the ZZP decals on my rear glass, or you can put it in your engine bay, or it can go in the trash. Whatever you like

So I can stick it to my toolbox just fine then? I was afraid the adhesive would reverse the logo should I put it there

I looked at www.cskauto.com and all they had were the XP606. Lemme look again to confirm, though.

edit: the autolite 606 (no other charcters, just 606) showed to be a copper core. is this correct?

yes, I believe it is a copper core, but I used them as a stock replacement for my bone stock SE for almost a year before I did the top swap, and had no issues. worked great, and like I said, much cheaper

i never understood why people would spend 30 dollars on spark plugs for an almost stock car.

I still run the autolite cheapies (103's) like 9 bucks for all of them

I have 104's right now.. thinking about stepping it down to the 103's. I'm getting a few degrees of KR, and it would probably eliminate most of it... hopefully

Yes, numbers with no affix are copper. AP affix is platinum. APP affix is double platinum. XP is iridium.

Man, if you're getting charged $70ish for ACs, you're getting close to raped. ZZP sells them for $40 or less. Around here they're in the high $50 range.

Problem is that I need this car up and running NLT this afternoon: it is our only way of getting our kids around. Especially since the POS Firebird is still in the shop.

With this new info, its time to call Checkers and see if they have the wires on hond or if I should go to the *shudders* $tealer$hip.

With those wires being half as expensive on ZZP as CSK, I wish I had the time to wait. Oh well.

Thanks again for the info that I was lookin for. Makes decisions that much easier. Yall doth rocketh. Yo.

go figure. the ONLY place in Cruces that has plug wires is Bravo Chevrolet. 78.81 USD out the door. Good news Checkers has Autolite 606 for 1.60 USD and the O2 socket for 10 USD.

You could repair the old wire as a temporary fix, just to get the car up and running again, unless of course the wire is now too short to reach the plug... Or see if Checkers sells single ignition wires, and match one up.

OUCH... They dont sell single wires, so you will need the whole setup... I've used the checker brand plugs in the past, they are supposed to be direct OEM replacement, and I've never had a problem with them, however, I havent used them on my GP and seems the GP is very picky about the parts you put on it...

Heh, it figures..around here some parts stores do carry single wires; not saying it's the right way to fix it, mind you, but when you're in a jam...

I just ordered a single wire directly from Taylor and I use iridium plugs at 9 bucks each so nyhaaa!

Is everything more expensive in NM? Autolites run $1.49 here. We also sell singles at work, $6 and you could be on your way.

yessir. I have the money being wired to me right now, Bravo is holding my wires, Checkers has plenty of plugs and O2 sockets...now jsut the waitin game. tick. tock.

Funny thing about #6 was that, at the time, it was INCREDIBLY easy to get to and the plug came right out. That darn O2 on the other hand...grr. I was thinking of buying Valuelast at Autozone until the wires came in from ZZP or Checkers or Main Auto Parts...but I was already expecting to pay the exorbitant cost anyway. Colleen will be done and running right by the end of the day! whoohoo!!

Now about that %#%#()* Firebird. Darn it.

WHOO HOO!!! the wire transfer is through!!! I'm gonna post pics tonight of all 6 plugs since the number of pics on this site has dramatically dropped off in recent weeks. We all need something to look at.

the replacement went well, considering that I had ripped about 4 boots in half. All 6 plugs looked like thumb tacks when I got them out. With the O2 socket, removal and replacement was SO much easier than trying to do something with a crescent wrench. Bobby, thank you for your patience with my less-than-calm calls concerning smoking dielectric grease. None of my other wires have ever had that grease on them, and I have never used the stuff. Quite upsetting to find your engine smoking after fixing the only 2 known maintenance issues. Sure enough, about 10 minutes after we hung up, the smoke completely stopped. Boy do I feel like a kid. Here's pics of the plugs and O2.




Here's the learning part of this ordeal: what does a pink/red sensor portion of the O2 sensor mean? the dye from the gas? Bad gas? Lean? Rich? Enjoy the comedy of errors, yall. Dont let this be you.

BTW: acceleration from 70-WOT is a whole lot better than before, the engine isnt vibrating, and from a dig-WOT, I'm back to what I remember, with a bunch more power going to the ground (and meaner sound coming from out back).

Glad you got her all fixed up; maybe the #6 wire breaking was just Colleen's way of telling you she needed a tune-up...

lol, she coulda been more subtle about it...like an intermittent misfire on one or more cylinders...not when I had no way of getting her fixed rightr away. THIS is why I name all my car's female names: so I can get away of cussing her out by calling her b__. Like I said, all things have returned to just about right.

so, last night unplugged the battery for an hour. Took the car out for 60+ mile test drive TRYIN to trigger the O2 codes. Nothing. Awesome.

Today I drove her around town, and the codes tripped again. Which ones? Not sure, never got to a scanner.

Symptoms: near overheat (210*+ on a day that only got to around 90-ish), MASS amounts of power while cruising and launching, VERY nearly stalled while launching from lights, stops, and hard accels (on-ramps).

IF the codes are still P0131 and P0137, that most likely means the cat's gone, right? Like I said, I dont know for sure whether or not the codes are the same, but I wouldnt doubt it.

Should the cat be the fault, I guess I'm in the market for a 2.5" D/P, high-flow OE cat, u-bend delete w/ O2 fitting. Is there any real difference in mfr/vendor, or is it all personal preference?

Of the 2 Ponchos I own, outright, in cash, titles in hand; guess what's in my garage right now? Give up? an 07 Civic. I feel violated. I was even wearing the GPN shirt today, too. I think I need a hug and lots of therapy after today.

I still have my old 2.5" DP w/ cat and u-bend delete.

I wouldn't ask more than $50-75 + shipping.

Still have that p-log too...

no kiddin? PM sent.

I'm just not 100% sure a bad cat would cause the front O2 to throw a code, but I could be completely wrong.
Maybe someone else who knows can chime in.

Zergs D/P would be the way to go instead of a new one.

thats about what my PM said. Just awaiting word back from the wrench.

the 2nd o2 is for the cat. the first would have no way of monitoring the cat

It could just be complete coincidence... totally unrelated SES light

the wrench just told me that the light and symptoms were caused by some vacuum leak. I will post more details later, along with some keywords for this. The diagnostic and repair cost me 75 USD. Better than the $tealer$hip.

Not bad, so he tell you where the vacume leak was? also hows Bellen doing??? she resting at home yet?

domt get started on Belen. I'm still as hot over that as I was on Sat. when we last chatted. I left the receipt down int the GP, so I'm gonna hafta wait till I get home to do the write-up. I remember seein something about Cleaned [MAF], but that was about it. Like I said, write up tonight when I get home.

Okay, on the ticket was:

Check [PCM]
Check Hesitation
Clean [MAF]
Repair Vacuum Line

The one fault was the the vacuum line (please see pic below) was melted and just laying there, suckin in too much air, thus creating a lean condition and tripping both O2 sensors. Turns out I replaced the fwd O2 too hastily. Oh well. At least now it's done. SO FAR no new codes or symptoms or returning issues, and I have about 90 miles on her right now. As promised, keywords.

Search Keywords:
both O2 sensors lean
P0131 and P0137
P0131 & P0137
new front O2 still lean

And the culprit? Before I show the pic, remember that when encountered with a similar issue (P0131 and P0137 tripped, loss of throttle response, loss of power, near stalling, and lean burn condition), one needs to check the fuel filter, both O2 sensors, the pictured vacuum line, the MAF, and the fuel rails and injectors. it is highly encouraged that you allow your local trusted wrench to diagnose the issue for you so you dont end up throwing money away.

With no further adieu: The Culprit.




Yeah, yeah, yeah, I needa clean the engine. Got it. Thanks.

That's your interior vacuum hose for running your a/c vents and such. Notice any wierd things with your vent system when you tried to change levels or temp?

not really. The AC was a LITTLE bit less responsive, but it was still cold with a good blow. In short, nothing out of the ordinary for summertime in the desert.

That line operates the blend doors on the ducting nothing todo with hot and cold just where the air blows.

then, um, if it has like nothing to do with the engine and AFR and fuel trims, why did it trip the codes like it did?

Because it was a vacuum leak on the engine. :p

LOL, now why didn't I think of that? It's truely amazing how interrelated all these gremlins are with our cars, isnt it? Gee, I wonder why my car seems to respond so incredibly negatively to electrical gremilns? (and cue the red car jokes...)

Glad you found the problem; those vac lines tend to either melt or snap like twigs, sometimes under the corrugated tubing...dang gremlins!

well, at about 300 miles, the same 4 codes were thrown again. No melted lines, O2 seems good, but I did find this wire disconnected. It's on the same cable as the O2 sensor. identification help, please?



The ABS connector in question is the one up and right from the engine lift bracket. Thanks yall.

EGR maybe? I can't see the plug in the EGR from that pic, kinda blurry.

Can you get a clearer shot maybe?

EDIT:

Ok, I just took a lamp out to the car and took a look at my wiring harness.

From what I could tell, that is the main wiring harness. It has every front sensor plug (MAF, MAP, etc.) as well as all the back ones (O2, EGR, Oil Level, etc.)

Off the same branching as the O2 sensor, I couldn't find any plug close enough to be that other than the EGR. However, I can see now that you EGR is still plugged in and also, it is a yellow plug cap.

The only yellow plug caps I could comfirm were the MAP, TPS, and Coolant Temp sensors.

However, none of those are all that close to where your plug is. What year is your car? Mine is a 98.

I'm kinda confused right now, I wish I could get a layout of the whole wiring harness...

Lemme go try.

I have that SAME wire on my car that goes to nothing....

holy almost triple post batman! sorry, forum hiccup

Here's the EGR up front, with the connector barely visibile:



Here's the connector in hand with a good clear shot of the EGR and quite a few other connections:



Thanks, Mike, for contacting me outside the forum, as long as another GT reports the same loose connector and has no issues with it, Im good.

So that means that that connector is ruled out. What else could it be? If everyone else is stumped, I'll be callin the good wrench tomorrow and see what he says.

Rich, I had the same question on my engine swap. That is the only plug I couldn't find a hole for when I was wiring stuff up. I think it turns out to be a hookup for air-injected vehicles to reduce emissions for Cali. (PS, I'm running an L36 harness.)

AH. so that definitely has nothing to do with my codes, then? Awesome.

So...
now what?

Yep, gonna call the wrench tomorrow.

Do me a favor. Grab some ether, carb cleaner, or brake cleaner. Start the engine. While running spray it around the EGR area. See if you hear the rpms go up.

dont have any of that. I was jsut talkin to my Dad. He had said to check the air filter. Well, the K&N was certainly filthy (thankfully I have a spare paper filter laying around for K&N cleanings). He also suggested PVC and EGR. What I will do, right after posting this, I WILL go and visually/physically inspect. True, not as reliable as spraying combustibles around the fuel system, but hopefully eyes and fingers can show me SOMETHING.

I'm wondering if this is an electrical gremlin at work.

Both P0131 and P0137 are low voltage sensor codes.

I wonder if maybe there is a short in the harness somewhere or possibly it's getting too hot and raising the impactity of the wire...

the bay has been a lil warmer than I normally remember. but it might be because of summertime in the desert.

Nothing found obviously wrong with the EGR. hmm.

Yep, callin the garage tomorrow

Well, the L36 intakes are prone to cracking where the EGR mates. That's why I was saying to spray around it.

there has to be somthing that it plugs into

There is, he just doesn't have it. I've got a couple plugs on the front end with nothing to plug into. I know one is the ambient temp sensor.

but you swapped motors... and had a 3.1. Everything plugged in on my L36.

... I think...

My L36 has that same connector that just sits there... It is not used on our cars

I read this post and had a similar prob with my gt. the only difference, I was getting a cat code not an o2. My car was running hotter than normal, and I was having the same power issues.

Turns out it was my fuel filter. I guess it was making me run lean or it just stop filtering the fuel. I change it, had my cat code erased and never seen the ses light again. I done this after the third cat.

I know this may not be your prob but when is the last time you changed yours? Just wondering?

fuel filter was changed about 4 months ago. That shouldnt be the problem. Especially since I use only Chevron or Shell premium fuel.

why do you use premium?

my own choice. prices arent that much diff per tank, so I decide to use the high-test stuff

Rook, you asked me to spray brake cleaner around the EGR to check for high revs...no response. The EGR is still sealed up tight. With the Bird back in the shop, there's no telling when I'm gonna be able to give a good solution to these issues.

So, um, since when have GPs been self-healing? Yesterday, right after we got on I-10 from US-290, my SES light turned off. Since I was suspecting vacuum leak or clogged cat, is it possible that the cat pooped out the broken pieces of the broken catalyst? Is it possible that my synthetic oil just plugged my UIM?

These seem impossible to me too, but I no longer have codes being thrown.

They still go away at times. You still need to scan them because they might be there just not showing the SES light.

Its only because the person finally has time on their hands to work on their car. Unfortunately, they don't realize if they need parts, they can get it.

^ what he said. The light can go off, but the PCM will still have the codes. Seems kind of stupid to me to have the light be able to turn off, but you still have the problem.

Brilliant.

Mine does it to me all the time with my O2. Apparently sometimes it even thinks the SES light is on, when it's not.

My ABS & TCS lights used to be on 97.8% of the time, now they are almost never on.

Of course, you can tell by the noises I still need new wheel hubs, but hey.

Self healing FTW!

funny thing about the self-healing car is that I no longer have the supercharger-like whine and the light is gone, Id hafta say my car cured itself. This is the weirdest thing Ive prolly ever had to have happen to me on any of my cars.